#4 fuse keeps blowing

[series1gtv]

Hey everyone
I have a 69gtv with some electrical malfunctions. It keeps blowing the #4 fuse everytime I turn on the headlights it blows I have only the passenger side taillight that works. The drivers side taillight goes with the fuse also I believe the tach/speedo lights are connected to this fuse. Does anyone have a relay recommendation? also does anyone know what to use to replace the relay which is located on the driver side of the firewall is this the headlight relay?

Thanks
Jeff

[papajam]

Have to make this a quick reply.
According to the 10551 wiring diagram, fuse #4 protects the parking lights and side markers at the RF and LR as well as the left license plate light and reverse lights. My first thought would be to disconnect the wire for the reverse lights at the back of the fusebox and see if the fuse blows. If it still does, disconnect the multipin wire connector for the LR tail light assy in the trunk. If the fuse still blows, it would appear that the short is in the RF.
I believe the relay in the engine bay is the foglight relay. It prevents the use of the foglights when the highbeams are on.

[Roadtrip]

Jeff-
There is no headlight relay, although Alfa should have put one on there. The stalk switch carries the entire load. Many Alfa owners have wisely retrofitted headlight relays to prolong the life of that expensive and hard-to-get stalk switch. What you're looking at on the left side of the engine compartment is the horn relay or fog light relay as Papajam says.

Regarding the fuse problem. You are a man in desperate need of a wiring diagram. I believe there's one in the rear of the Owner's Manual (if you've got it). Go to the top of the "ELECTRICAL" section and download the Papajam's excellent wire diagram for the 69 SPIDER. The GTV is almost identical, I'm pretty sure. On it you will see that the #4 and #5 fuses gets their power totally through the stalk switch and controls:

1. Right Front Parking Light
2. Right Front Side Marker Light
3. Engine Compartment Light (which is why the light only works when the hood is open AND the headlights and/or parking lights are on)
4. Reverse Light Switch
5. Left Tail Light
6. Left Side Marker Light
7. Left License Plate Light

I believe the Dash Lights are powered off the #5 fuse, through the Dash Light Switch.

You will note above that the #4 does NOT control the headlights. When you rotate the stalk switch to the FIRST position ONLY (parking lights), does the fuse blow??

From your description, it sounds like you might have a bad stalk switch and a shorted circuit. However, I don't believe easily in multiple malfunctions. So, the key questions are:

1. What happens when you turn the stalk switch to parking lights only.
2. What happens when you turn the stalk switch to headlights.

[series1gtv]

It appears that it blows as soon as you turn it to the first position. What does this indicate? Also the relay I'm curious about I don't think it's a foglight as that one is on the fender and the one closer to the front is the horn relay. So basically I've identified the two on the fender as the horn and foggers, but on the firewall is a 5 pronged relay similar to the one for the fogs. The wires coming from it are from the top left clockwise:

GREEN-------------GREY------------------- Grounded to body
-------------------------------------------------TWO BLack wires
------------- RED------------

BLACK---------------Light BLUE w/black stripe


This is how it appears I hope this is understandable. I had to put the lines on there because it kept removing my spaces when I would try to post it.I can't identify it from the diagram. I'll try to get a good pic and post it to show you. The main thing I'm trying to accomplish is to get my driving lights working mainly my taillights and keep my turn signals as well. Thank you for yr prompt replies and all your help with the TA set-up the car is running sooo smooth and powerfully.

Jeff

[Roadtrip]

Look on the wire diagram for the 74 GTVs. It shows the fog light relay as having connections:

Blue/Black 2 wire pigtail to each of the fog lights
Violet to the Fog Light Switch
Red/Black to the fuse (main power feed)
Green to the headlight switch

I think the relay on the firewall is the fog light relay.

One on the fenderwell is a horn relay. It will have a black wire going to the steering box.

The other relay on the fenderwell may be a headlight relay retrofitted by a previous owner. What color are the wires going to it?

[papajam]

I guess that the other 'relay' on the fender is the voltage regulator.

[series1gtv]

The relay I'm talking about is on the firewall and it looks like the wires coming from the turn signal flasher lead to it(very strange)??? The voltage regulator is up by the horn relay this is right on the firewall. Tonight I had a real mess I tightened the tach cable where it screws into the back of the tach when I finished I took the car out to see if the tach was still noisy. When I pulled out of the driveway my turn signal relay blew. Now I can't get the signals to work at all. I think I must have jarred something but I can't find it. I would really just like to get my signals to work so I can drive the car at least by day. Any ideas what I might have jarred loose?

Thanks for your help and patience
Jeff

[Roadtrip]

Jeff - You're breaking it faster than we can help you fix it!

See my above post. I think the relay on the firewall is the fog lamps. The turn signal and 4-way flashers are usually under the dash.

Like Papajam says, the second relay on the fenderwell might be the voltage regulator. Does that "relay" have a wire going to the Alternator?

Did you print a copy of the wiring diagram yet. Print the 69 Spider and 74 GTV. Those will give you a very good idea for color coding of your car's wiring.

Post some pictures of what you're talking about. That will help a lot.

On the #4 fuse problem, like Papajam says, I'd start with disconnecting the reverse light switch on the bellhousing or at the fuseblock and then try a new fuse. If it stays good, you know it's the reverse light switch. If it blows anyway, then you're going to have to chase wires to find the short.

Please sit down with the wire diagram and become familiar with it. That will help a lot.

[series1gtv]

Yeah I've got the 105.51 diagram it just doesn't seem the same as some stuff on the car. The good news is I took out the fuse block and cleaned it throughly, when I was under there I found a ground which wasn't grounded so I fixed that and cleaned it. After that my signals work well Ha Ha. I have to laugh because right after I got the signals to work I tried the lights which blew 4 and 5 fuse. Of course this caused me to drop the shop light and break it. Serenity NOw!!

Thanks guys I'll post some pics of that relay
Jeff

[series1gtv]

#1 Okay guys here it is I hope these pics are useful!! The picture on the far right is probably the best view of the relay I'm curious about.

#2 As for the short problem; as near as I can tell it is the front parking lights on the right side that causes the short. My knowledge of electrics is limited I've done some reading but practical knowledge from experience is the best. Could you recommend a remedy to this problem? Also as you can see my relays are quite old could you recommend what to replace them with? I have a few new Bosch relays with 85,86,87 and+30 on them, also I have the newer 5 pronged version of this same relay these are from my BMW 2002. I know they were used quite often on Euro cars of the era. Are these useful for replacing some of the relays on my Alfa? I currently don't have fog lights so that one is of no concern. I would like to replace all the relays on the car. Can you please tell me what relays( the numbers and brand of relay) are used and how and where to hook them up? Thanks to both of you for all your help and patience without you my car would still be sitting sadly in the garage. Instead every afternoon I take it out for a top speed run through the backroads!!!

Happy holidays
Jeff

[Roadtrip]

What color are the wires that go to the relay nearest the left rear corner (on the fenderwell).

As far as tracing down the short, you just have to chase the wire and look for any rubs or insulation cracks along the way. You might try removing the bulb and see if that makes any difference.

If you hook up a test lamp between the fuse hold-in prongs, and it illuminates, then you have a short. Clip the light to the top of the steering wheel, then move the appropriate color wire around where you think the short might be to see if the light flickers. When it does, you know you're close to the source of the short.

[series1gtv]

Looks like I've really done it now. When trying to find the short I was switching wires I turned on the lights and there was no fuse blowing just noxious smoke filling the car Yikes!! It seems that a number of the colored wires don't correspond to the wiring diagram the wierd thing is they seem to match the others in terms of age etc. Anyway the yellow wire going into the signal/light stalk is now really toast most of the plastic cover burned but the good news is I think thats probably where the short was!! The bad news is that wire is wrapped in a bunch so it may have damaged some of the others. Can I replace the wire here or do I need a new switch? If I need a new switch where can they be found?
Thanks
Jeff

[Roadtrip]

Jeff - Unbundle the wire bundle and find out what's damaged. The yellow wire, I believe, should go from the headlight stalk switch to feed power to the #4 & 5 fuses. You'll need a tester to check the continuity of the switch to see if it's shorted as well as the wire from the switch to the fuseblock.

I'd really recommend that you remove the dashboard and check and clean all the wiring under there.

PM Papajam to see if he's got a 69 GTV wire diagram he can fax you. I'd be willing to bet that the 68 GTV version on the BB here is very close except for the added SPICA wiring.

[series1gtv]

I have the diagram for my model of car 105.51 I just don't completely understand it. On the diagram fuse 4 and 5 appear connected by a black wire am I interpreting this correctly? The yellow wire which burnt was connected to the top of #5 fuse, I saw on the diagram that the top of 4 and 5 were connected by a black wire. I thought this meant that they needed grounded so I hooked up a wire to ground on the body. Obviously this was a serious mistake! Do the tops of these need to be connected to each other? I know they certainly don't need a wire to ground in that position!! Ha Ha. I am a bit gun shy now and the car reeks of burnt plastic. Do these black lines merely indicate that the two fuses are for either side of a light/ like R. and L. headlights/foglights/blinkers? Keep in mind that #5 which wasn't blowing before had the yellow wire running into it. Number 4 which I've never been able to fix has had nothing connected to the top part of the fuse holder. Sorry for my ignorance I've done some reading on the subject but I've no practical experience. Thanks for the help!!

Jeff

[series1gtv]

Roadtrip,
In your last post you said the yellow should go to 4 and 5. Since I've had the car theres only been the yellow going to 5 this corresponds to my right rear taillight and front left these have always worked perfect. But I've never had anything connected to the top of #4. When I replace the yellow wire should I connect it to 4 and 5? If this is the correct way to do it it seems that it was the problem all along.

Thanks
Jeff

You can see in thse pics that the wires from the top of 4 and 5 are out (this is after the burning incident) I've snipped the yellow very close to the connection and plan to twist a wire into it and cover it well with electrical tape. I just need to know if I should make a wire for both 4 and 5 or just 5 and the search continues?