recommendations for a shop/tech in ATL - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #1 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-04-2012, 02:47 PM Thread Starter
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recommendations for a shop/tech in ATL

but FIRST maybe some Help? to avoid hourly shop rates... what i have and what i have done in the last few months

i have a 1985 GTV6 i am having difficulty with. Done a lot of work myself, replaced a few things butit still will not start .(battery/plugs(correct gap)/plug and coil wires(Magnacore 8.5mm set)/all vaccuum lines-silicone from HiPerformance in Oklahoma/water pump/reset timing belt(used existing TB and tensioner)/cleaned up radiator,fans,airbox,engine bay to get rid of rust and get paint on misc items to protect from more rust (hopefully )-and a few items w/ the A/C and other misc items outside the engine compartment (lenses, tidied up the battery location,interior detail(in fantastic shape BTW), door seal(Passenger side-was missing and didn't notice at first)... and maybe MORE. good enough for now.

...but that is completly secondary after the engine is back in good condition and running...

that will be next w/ suspension freshening rubber and more rust treatments.

I did have it start shortly after it landing here (freak coincidence?? -it did idle and sounded fantastic)) and actually drove it for about 10 miles, started 2 times during the trip to lunch, but had to have it towed back the next day.


There seems to be a few "missing" wires, but not sure. I have looked at wiring diagrams and now searching everywhere for help/locating possible causes.
-missing??
  1. missing wire (see broken connector) on small cylinder near lower windshield/driver side/coolant tank (what's it called?)
AND
  1. missing wire on the IGNITION COOLANT TEMP SENSOR on the thermostat housing. the other 3 there seem to be good. WHERE does the ICTS wire go too??? -biggest MYSTERY i have now.
Help if you can.
Thanks
Dennis in Roswell, GA
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post #2 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-05-2012, 07:59 PM
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Deep South AROC is centered around New Orleans more or less - think Hurricane Isaac flood zone.... so Atlanta is in another chapter's geography. I'd check the website: http://www.arocatlanta.org/ Don't know anyone from there to recommend, sorry.

I will alert our resident tech guy/GTV6 and Milano owner though, and see if he has any suggestions!

Jeff - In coastal Alabama with one Alfa that runs.....
and only two more gathering parts.

Last edited by OntheRoad; 09-05-2012 at 08:03 PM.
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post #3 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-06-2012, 01:21 PM Thread Starter
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thanks

I did not see Atlantas club site, so i was just taking a stab in the dark for some help. thanks for clearing the DEEP SOUTH thig up. ~have a nice week.
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post #4 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-06-2012, 01:37 PM Thread Starter
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found them

I see thay are having an Italian (not only Alfa specific) car show this weekend. maybe i will be able to find a running GTV6 & owner to get some answers now I just need a ride- LOL.
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post #5 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-06-2012, 01:40 PM Thread Starter
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crap. it's a BRITISH car thing...

oh well, MAYBE i will go anyway... have a few Guinness and some bangers and mash at a local bup I have not been to in a long while right on the street where the event will be held.

over and OUT.

PS - hope you were able to avoid the wrath of the hurricanes this last time.
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post #6 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-07-2012, 09:30 PM
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There is an Italian Car meet/show in metro Atlanta...

..and I think it might be coming up. As I remember it was in October a couple(?) of years ago, around the time of the SVRA fall finale at Road Atlanta when a car or two that had participated made it up to the track. It didn't coincide with that event, wish I had known about it ahead of time.

We ran across an Alfa racer at one of these based in Atlanta, and he had a shop somewhere north of the perimeter.

Otherwise, maybe Tim Spruill can get on the board this weekend and provide a bit of insight or guesswork. His cars have run every time I have been around them.

Good luck! Hurricane Isaac was just a reference to LA, MS, AL coast + the western FL panhandle, where the membership is. The water is fresh on everybody's mind!

Jeff - In coastal Alabama with one Alfa that runs.....
and only two more gathering parts.
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post #7 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-08-2012, 01:00 AM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up Todd Sprull and I have had some email connections

...maybe time for some more. I was seeing IF I culd find some others too

-Thanks. see you around
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post #8 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-12-2012, 09:03 PM
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Todd Spruell is NOT Tim Spruill

Two very different guys. Tim is currently an AROC board member and prez of this chapter as well as owner of previously mentioned cars. Tim does not deal in parts or list stuff BIN on ebay.

Don't know Todd, haven't dealt with them at all either on ebay or from Spruell Motorsports

Bob, the Alfa guy we met had a business called Alfa Atlanta, Alfa Atlanta specializing in repairing and servicing Alfa Romeo cars. Nice guy to talk to, very helpful and knowledgeable and had a very well turned out car at that particular vintage race.

Shame you aren't closer. Tech day this weekend, just off I-59 in MS.

Jeff - In coastal Alabama with one Alfa that runs.....
and only two more gathering parts.

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post #9 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 12:19 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks.

Have fun this weekend

i will check that link very soon (tomorrow... later today, it's 3:20 time for a few ZZzz's

Dennis Himberger | Roswell, GA (Atlanta) | 678-634-8773
1985 GTV6|under construction|Acquired May 2012|Delivered June 2012|Daily Driver
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post #10 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-13-2012, 12:29 AM Thread Starter
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Thumbs up

ok. i could not wait.

Bob Hine is a name I was given here from someone, so it is good to get more than one recommendation. the shop is abput 15 miles from me, so AAA may get an eventual call and have a professional do some looking into this. I will give it a little more time. I found Greg's L-tronic FI diagnostic page (43 pages long) and will go thru page by page... have done some already. ground checking may reveal a weak point or a source of problem (i hope )

Thanks again

Dennis Himberger | Roswell, GA (Atlanta) | 678-634-8773
1985 GTV6|under construction|Acquired May 2012|Delivered June 2012|Daily Driver
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post #11 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-15-2012, 07:48 AM
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Finally found a moment to read about the problem and give it some thought. First... your missing or disconnected wires. Don't worry about them. The cylinder by the puke tank is the resistor set for the heater blower motor. Worry about that once you have a running car. The second missing or disconnected wire is for a crappy cold start retard system for the EPA that was so bad even the EPA said to disconnect it.

The first place I would look is the connector for the hall effect sensor on the dizzy. It is a 90 degree three wire plug on the side of the dizzy. I have had to fix and resolder the wires on mine twice. One day the car runs. The next it doesn't or it only goes around the block before dying. Just unplug it and gently pull back the rubber cover from the plug. Make sure all three of those tiny wires are intact and happy. If any are unhappy you can do your best to effect repairs but it is kind of tough. If you can locate a source for the plug itself or for the tiny little female connectors inside, let me know. I have jury rigged mine twice. Out enough solder on it the second time that the plug almost would not fit back into the housing.

Ok, all that being said, you need to get a timing light and check for spark while you turn over the engine. Next step is to make sure the fuel pump is running. On the later GTV6s you can turn the key to the on position and shove a screwdrive into the MAF to open the flap and the pump will run. Once you know the pump is running you need to have someone crank the engine while you listen to the injector fuel rail with a piece of hose. The injectors are really loud and they all fire at once with a good click. If you have fuel and spark then your issue is with timing or management somewhere. While you have the timing light out you can check your timing. The factory marks are good but you can double the advance or a little more and still be safe. If you run premium you can run even more. The car will be really happy if you do.

If all of those things check out then you need to start looking for a mechanical problem. Without more symptoms to examine it would be tough to guess where to start. Based on your running followed by no start condition I would just about guarantee you have a management issue. Gotta be a plug or loose wire or bad sensor somewhere. Could be something really stupid like a loose dizzy or coil wire. I say give the engine a really good examination and see if anything obvious pops up.

Good luck.

Tim

'88 Milano Verde- Maura
'85 Spider- Abriana
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post #12 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-15-2012, 11:42 AM Thread Starter
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Smile thanks Tim

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim-Spruill View Post
Finally found a moment to read about the problem and give it some thought. First... your missing or disconnected wires. Don't worry about them. The cylinder by the puke tank is the resistor set for the heater blower motor. Worry about that once you have a running car. The second missing or disconnected wire is for a crappy cold start retard system for the EPA that was so bad even the EPA said to disconnect it.

The first place I would look is the connector for the hall effect sensor on the dizzy. It is a 90 degree three wire plug on the side of the dizzy. I have had to fix and resolder the wires on mine twice. One day the car runs. The next it doesn't or it only goes around the block before dying. Just unplug it and gently pull back the rubber cover from the plug. Make sure all three of those tiny wires are intact and happy. If any are unhappy you can do your best to effect repairs but it is kind of tough. If you can locate a source for the plug 1.itself or for the tiny little female connectors inside, let me know. I have jury rigged mine twice. Out enough solder on it the second time that the plug almost would not fit back into the housing.

Ok, all that being said, you need to get a timing light and check for spark while you turn over the engine. Next step is to make sure the fuel pump is running. On the later GTV6s you can turn the key to the on position and shove a screwdrive into the MAF to open the flap and the pump will run. Once you know the pump is running you need to have someone crank the engine while you listen to the injector fuel rail with a piece of hose. The injectors are really loud and they all fire at once with a good click. If you have fuel and spark then your issue is with timing or management somewhere. While you have the timing light out you can check your timing. The factory marks are good but you can double the advance or a little more and still be safe. If you run premium you can run even more. The car will be really happy if you do.

If all of those things check out then you need to start looking for a mechanical problem. Without more symptoms to examine it would be tough to guess where to start. Based on your running followed by no start condition I would just about guarantee you have a management issue. Gotta be a plug or loose wire or bad sensor somewhere. Could be something really stupid like a loose dizzy or coil wire. I say give the engine a really good examination and see if anything obvious pops up.

Good luck.

Tim
1. i will examine the dizzy plugs.
2. i have spark. (checked at #4 &5, do i need to check ALL 6?
3. fuel pump does run. i checked it off and on the car. makes noise with key ON
4. -i have not heard the injectors make noise, so not sure if it is a bad injection ECU (it was replaced NOV 2011 (by PO at a shop) it was used (from markings) -no corrosion on connectors-
4a.{how or CAN I test this component??}and wonder if the different fuses in the fuse box (not all are 8 or 16, many others[green-blue-black] in use. i am changing them back to what manual shows-but guessing too late to save any overloaded components at this time-if they are already fried??)
5. need to get/borrow a timing light to make sure its all good. i did reset the timing belt too, head covers off checked the cam marks, etc.-should be good? but need to triple check with the light now
5a. I planned on running 93 octane. and some injector cleaner was in there but drained fuel before checked fuel pump, did not want to loose it all (at $4/gal on the ground
6. I have new plug and coil wires (first new thing I bought- and vacuum line silicone kit- i think it had a bad coil wire? i disceted it and saw no physical connection betewwn dizzy and coil. there was a plastic(clear) piece imbedded in the plastic cover in the original coil wire. -i suspected the new plug wires not clipping to the plugs too. a bit hard to get to clip sometimes.
6a.i found a not completely pushed together plug connector WAY under the fuse box buried up at the firewall. and thought this HAD to be it. maybe a contributing factor, but it didnt SOLVE the start issue. will keep searching, before long if nothing i MAY have it towed to have professionals look it over (with all my notes). and a printout of this thread

Thanks so much for the suggestions... VERY APPRECIATED.

we'll get it done.

Dennis Himberger | Roswell, GA (Atlanta) | 678-634-8773
1985 GTV6|under construction|Acquired May 2012|Delivered June 2012|Daily Driver
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post #13 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-25-2012, 02:53 PM
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Hmm, looks like you are doing all the right things. I would definitely get a timing light on that car. Any time you take the timing belt off you have a good chance of messing up the dizzy timing. That extra cog on the passenger side of the engine between the crank and cam pulleys is not just to drive the oil pump. It is also for the dizzy. I have yet to change a timing belt without messing up the timing. Get a light on that thing and reset the timing to stock. It can take quite a bit of advance but stock is a good place to begin.

No you do not have to check every plug for spark.

The fuel pump should not be running when you turn the key to the on position. It should only run when the engine is turning. It should be activated when the AFM flap is opened either manually or by the engine sucking in air. Obviously someone has jacked around with your wiring somewhere. This is not a good sign.

Personally, even though I have seen at least two computers fail in my day, I tend to look at the computer last. They are very robust.

You need fuel, air, fire, and compression to run an engine. If you have spark then you have fire. If your hoses are all hooked up and sealed tightly then you have air. If you can smell raw gas at the tail pipe after cranking the engine then you have fuel. If you have run a compression check and get decent numbers then you have compression.

Have you tried to start it on starting fluid? It is a really easy way to determine if you have a fuel problem.

Keep me posted.

Tim

'88 Milano Verde- Maura
'85 Spider- Abriana
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post #14 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-28-2012, 09:09 PM
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Weekend here... hoping to get an update.

Tim, re your signature: Why doesn't the GTV-6 have a name too? I know it is loved.... as you wouldn't consider parting with it. Personally, I think owning an intact, solid non-running GTV6 is a good problem to have.

Jeff - In coastal Alabama with one Alfa that runs.....
and only two more gathering parts.

Last edited by OntheRoad; 09-28-2012 at 09:13 PM.
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post #15 of 18 (permalink) Old 09-30-2012, 05:58 AM
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Excellent question sir. The answer is that I have never gotten around to donating any money to the BB (a sin I know) and therefore am only allowed so many lines in my signature. I need to drop the spider and add the GTV6.

Check your inbox for another present....

Tim

'88 Milano Verde- Maura
'85 Spider- Abriana
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