Help!

[aeroengineerguy]

I had the airbox off today while I was looking for a fuel leak and discovered that my throttlebodies are only opening 75-80% when the peddle is to the floor. i looked around for a while but couldn't find any way to adjust the throw on the throttle bellcrank. does anyone have any suggestions?

thanks in advance,
Jason

Assuming it's Spica you may need to readjust everything, first check the the pedal at the floor(the stop is adjustable). Unfortunatly some mechanics adjust the idle by changing the lenght of the crank-to throttle or crank to control unit rods, You start by removing the rods from the bellcrank and adjusting the throttle stops with a special tool and then adjusting the rods in a specfic manner, You'll need the tool and a manual, it's not that difficult, hopefully one of the Spica Guru's will provide some advice, several refrence manuals will guide you thru the process, The factory manual is a good source and I belive you can get a copy from AROC

[Roadtrip]

That's not uncommon. Usually as the result of inept tinkering by a PO.

First of all, when asking for technical advice, you need to include the year and model of car you're asking advice on.

Secondly, DON'T be tempted to start turning screws and resetting things until you know what you're doing. The SPICA system is pretty forgiving to bonehead tuneups, but it won't run optimumly unless the settings are done accurately and in specific order.

Check:
1. Can you turn the throttle bellcrank (on the intake manifold) to full throttle by hand (not with the driver's foot pedal)?
2. At idle, are the throttle plates completely closed?
3. Check the condition of the 4 little plastic balljoint recepticles on the ends of the short and long rod. Are they cracked or loose on the ball?

Let me know and we'll continue on.

Seriously, get a manual, the best investment you can make, read it front to back, getting info in bits and pieces will make the system seem overly complicated and it isn't. The Spica system is very easy to set up correctly, and just as easy to screw up hopelessly, The tool(A.4.0121) is very helpful and almost impossible to find, and is among those we are going to have made. The manual is a necessity. And DO check at the pedal, you would be susprised how many 105's, Weber and Spica, will give full throttle at the manifold and won't with the pedal because its not adjusted correctly, the linkage of both systems have several adjustment points, just like HP and weight savings, online Guru's will make a point of telling you that each item is insignificant. Every little bit counts and every little bit matters, and Alfa has specs for every little bit from the pedal to the bellcrank to the pump, if the Previous Owner has screwed it up, do you really want to fumble about in bits and pieces, or get the manual and start clean I made a really good living working on Italian cars, now I hobby garden and tinker with my cars, there is alot of good information on the internet, and there are some A**h***s who take themselves way to seriously, If you are not a member Join the AROC, find a good local shop, and get some good manuals, and be very careful of the advice you get, are they being helpful or stroking their ego? ME I'm done with this forum.

[sono veL.O.ce]

Sounds like youre going to get an extra 20-25% on your top end! If only we could figure out a way to sell it as a performance mod....

[Roadtrip]

A-O-C gives good advice on getting a SPICA manual and also on the checking the foot throttle. If you're a new owner, you might want to look at the "Advice to new owner's" sticky post under the "Anything about Alfa's" thread. "The Alfa Romeo Owner's Bible is excellent for a new owner. The Alfa Romeo Owner's Club SPICA Notes are also excellent, but it's in a very high degree of detail. Also, a few of the articles and advice columns had some since-discredited advice in them. It's usually noted as being since-discredited, but be sure to read carefully for disclaimers. Also the Cardisc series has the original SPICA shop manuals in it. Often times they refer to special factory tools that most owners will never have access to. A good example is the tool for precise setting of the idle and wide-open-throttle stops. If you're like me and don't live in a large metro area, you don't have access to a well equiped professional Alfa mechanic. But, there are some workarounds once you understand the system. However, if you're going to do your own SPICA maintenance, you'll need to do a bit of tech study. When you have a basis of knowledge on the system, it make it easier to ask the right questions.

Again on the failure of the throttles to open fully, don't start automatically adjusting the bellcrank stop screws. Many settings in the SPICA system are inter-related. Changing one affects the others. The foot throttle mechanism is much more likely the cause . . . which is why if you can turn the bellcrank by hand to full open, it's perhaps the foot throttle stop that's out of adjustment, or an excessively loose throttle cable.

If the throttle stop screws are indeed maladjusted, like A-O-C says, the best course of action would be a compete tuneup to get everything in proper sync. This involves making adjustments in a very a precise order and the manual will explain that.

[aeroengineerguy]

thanks for the advice alfa of-corse and roadtrip.
first off, we're talking about a 74 gtv 2000 with stock spica injection. sorry I didn't clarify earlier.
I tried turning the bellcrank by hand and it stopped at the same place it does with the foot pedel. It looks to me like the spica end of the long rod is contacting the rubber motor mount and limiting the throw on the bellcrank. as far as idle goes, the throttle plates are completely closed. Also, none of the plastic linkages are damaged. I'll try to find a spica manual and an alfa shop asap. thanks for the advice everyone.

Jason

[JoeCab]

This may be the "factory" setting.

A knowledgeable Alfa wrench, who worked at a dealership when the Spica cars were introduced, told me they all came that way from the factory, with the intent of not allowing WOT during the break-in period.

They were supposed to be reset to allow full throttle during the first service, but he still occasionally will run across a car with this setting.

Joe

[Roadtrip]

aero - That motor mount would have to be very distorted to rub the long rod. If you have a digital camera post a picture. How do the motor mounts look? Is the right one look squashed and distorted?

JoeCab - I've never heard of that before. Did your source say how they limited the throttle angle before the first service?

[JoeCab]

It was about 3/4 throttle, which sounds like about what you've got.

Joe

[aeroengineerguy]

Along with the motormount, an aftermarket gas pedal was to blame. I cut some of the motormount away and took the pedal off. the bell crank now gets full throw and I've got a lot more power in the higher rpms now to find another pedal!
roadtrip, the mounts don't look distorted at all, and the fan sits perfectly in the center of the shroud I'll take a picture tomorrow and post it.

thanks for the advice everyone
Jason

[Roadtrip]

Mystery solved. Good. As for a pedal assembly, call Alfa Parts Exchange (209) 833-8330. They might have one. Also, check ebay for people who look like they're parting out cars and email them if they have one. Pedal assemblies are usually not even advertised and crushed with the cars because they're not in demand.

[aeroengineerguy]

Roadtrip, good to know! and thanks for the #