Cold start and run

[Bill]

Here is one for the brain trust:

Temp just dropped to 30 here in "warm" central Texas.

Went to start Sophia as I do every morning and got this:

1. cranked 4 times longer than ususal before starting;
2. died after a few seconds;
3. restarted with fewer cranks;
4. died after a few more seconds;
5. restarted and finally idled around 1200rpm;
6. started "hunting" between 600-1800 rpm;
7. settled down to 1000 rpm after about 6 min;
8. tried to give it throttle and sounded 'starved';
9. blipped the throttle and never really got power;
10. tried to take off and had nothing to work with;
11. stopped car, left running, idled fine;
12. removed air cleaner and removed two wires to cold start-not much change;
13. removed wire to decell and noticed a difference in throttle response-was able to drive to work- 10 miles but she was not happy about it, lots of backfire through the intake and exhaust pipe.

Im not sure about the setting with TA and dont have a dummy to test it.

Thats where we are now. Any ideas?

[Roadtrip]

Bill - I'm going to assume that you're not getting a fuel low pressure warning light. Although I don't think it's the problem, when the temperature goes below freezing in humid weather, the fuel tank vent has been known to freeze up and create a vacumn in the fuel tank.

Check to be sure the timing hasn't slipped. Is the distributor secure, advance mechanism working properly, and spark good? Vacumn hoses secure and not leaking? No blown head gasket? Is there black smoke coming out the tailpipe?

It sounds as if this condition came on suddenly, correct?

Did the engine run strongly at full throttle accel?

1. Check the throttle rod ends for any cracks that may have allowed the rod to slip some threads and change position, thus disrupting the throttle butterfly angle vs. injection pump throttle lever angle.

2. With the engine off, key switch off, and wire removed from the Fuel Cutoff Solenoid (FCS), run a shorting wire directly from the positive battery to the FCS spade terminal. Do you hear it "click" crisply when you touch the spade terminal? Do the same thing with the Cold Start Solenoid (CSS). Only actuate them momentarily to keep them from overheating.

3. Test to see if the FCS microswitch is shorting out intermittently. Turn on the ignition switch. Connect a test light with one end to the FCS female terminal and the other to a body ground. If the light illuminates, the microswitch is shorted.

If all that checks ok and it still feels like the engine is running very lean:

1. Remove the Altitude (Barometric) Compensator by removing the three screws on the triangular plate on the top of the pump. Carefully remove the compensator. It's not attached to anything inside the pump. (see pictures in previous post on pump mx). Be careful with the compensator. It can be easily damaged.

2. Check the extension of the bellows if it's really long (like 40mm and looks REALLY extended) then it may be that the bellows membrane has been breached. If it looks like the picture, then it's probably ok.

3. Look into the cavity and check the security of the Compensator Link Retaining Spring. It should be attached to the compensator link at the bottom, and threaded on the machine screw at the top.

As far as the T/A goes, you don't test it with a dummy actuator. The dummy is used to set the pump gap only. The T/A is best tested by heating the intake manifold end in a pot of water, then measuring the pump end's piston extension while noting the water temperature. A kitchen pot and thermometer works well . . . . but only if your wife isn't home.

[Bill]

John,
Thanks for the info.

Fuel pressure is right on and I have correct timing.

I removed the Altitude Compensator and It looks like I have a broken Compensator Link Retaining Spring.

It is attached at the top, and I can see part of it attached at the bottom, but the two are not joined.

Do I need to break down the SPICA or can it be replaced in situ?

Once the car is warmed up it seems to run ok, not great, but ok.

Does not start easily and hold its idle, until warm.

Any other advice?

Thanks, Bill

[Roadtrip]

Bill -
Well . . . . rats. Unfortunately, trying to replace it in-situ isn't practical. When you push on the spring, it's completely detached from the bottom, right? The bottom part of the spring goes through two small holes in the link arm . . . impossible to see or get needlenose pliers into. If the break was up at the top, you can sometimes just remove the broken piece off the machine screw, then thread the remaining portion back on the machine screw . . . but that's just an emergency measure. The "fix" is replacing the spring and that's going to mean removing the pump from the engine . . . . not a super big deal.

What's happened, is since the spring broke, the compensator link arm isn't being pulled up against the altitude compensator, thus setting the correct mixture for the pressure altitude. When the spring broke the link arm probably slipped a couple of notches towards lean. So, the pump thinks it's up at 8-9,000' feet altitude and has greatly leaned the mixture.

Give Wes Ingram a call and see what he recommends. He might just recommend overhauling the pump, but that's pretty darn expensive. Since the plungers are still in good shape there's no need for that.

See if he has the compensator link spring that he could sell you and you can replace it yourself. If not I have one. Splitting the pump logic section off from the pump section isn't as scary as you may think, but getting everything lined up and back together takes a little patience, dexterity and some short piece of mechanics wire and rubberbands. I can talk you through it. If all else fails, send it to me and I'll do it for you.

[dwc]

Hi Bill:

I've replaced the spring with the pump in place ('72 Spider), and although it was quite a few years (like 20+) ago, I really don't remember it being any big deal. I was doing my first stint in college and did the job in a parking lot on campus. I think I used a long skinny set of needle-nosed pliers to hook the bottom of the spring in place, and a heavier set of pliers to pull the spring up while I threaded the top screw into it. Since then, I've often heard that the pump needs to be pulled, but since I didn't know any better at the time, perhaps that was the secret of my success.

Unless you need to pull the pump for some other reason, try replacing the spring with it in place. Good luck.

Regards,

Dean
Lutz, FL
'74 & '87 Spider Veloce's

[John M]

Hey Bill:

Take a picture of what you need and post it up. I have a spare spica in the basement that i will never use. If you want the part it yours for free. And John if you want the rest of it for parts....let me know.

Best Regards,
John M

[Roadtrip]

John M - Thanks for the offer. Check your PM.

dwc - If you were able to thread that spring though the two tiny holes on the link arm and do it through the Altitude Compensator opening, then you must be a brain surgeon.

I suppose if you could get the spring through one hole it might stay long enough to get you home.

Below is a picture of the retaining spring showing the holes that it's threaded through. In the post below is another idea for an emergency fix for a broken compensator link spring.

[Roadtrip]

This emergency fix for a broken compensator link retaining spring might get you home in a pickle. Tools needed: screwdriver, needlenose pliers, piece of mechanics wire (or a paper clip) and a rubber band. Simply remove the retaining spring machine screw, insert mechanics wire through the hole, and make a small hook to hook around the link arm. Make another hook at the top and attach a rubber band. Hook the rubber bad to something and stretch it to approximate the force of the spring (not much, just enough to hold the link arm up against the Altitutde Compensator bottom pin).

[dwc]

Hi Guys:

Well, I don't know what to say. It must have been Spring of '81 when I replaced that spring, and I didn't sell that Spider until Fall of '85, when I defected to BMW's for about 10 years. That Spider was my only car, I drove it around 200 miles a week, and barely ever opened the hood. The only other parts I recall replacing were the slave cylinder, tires, and a top, and when I sold the car, I gave the buyer a box full of new filters and other tune-up parts that I never bothered to replace. It was as close to being a Toyota as any Alfa I've ever owned. It must have been either Keith Goring or Don Ereminas that diagnosed the problem over the phone (them in CT, me in FL), sent the spring, and told me what to do. Like I said, if you don't know you're not supposed to be able to do something, you just assume it can be done, and you get it done.

I have heard of guys that can replace a microswitch with the Spica pump in place, and I know I'm not in that league. That's one of those things I'd have to see to believe, and in that case, it really must be easier to pull the pump.

As for my skills as a brain surgeon, your guess wasn't totally off base. I'm 45 now, but back in school pursuing a medical degree. I'm not willing to make the sacrifices necessary to become a surgeon, though.

Regards,

Dean

[X-racer]

I've replaced at least three of those springs in place, through the altitude compensator hole.

It takes some dexterity, as noted above, and some slightly specialized tools, such as captive spring hooks.

But, I spent years fixing IBM punch card equipment, which has to be the high point of electro-mechanical gear-wheel-cams-spring technology.

[Bill]

Thanks folks for the info, help and offers!

I was able to reach in with the "paper clip' Alfa special tool # 001 Bostich, and pull the lever up to the "normal" position and at the same time, reset the barometric bellows to a height setting so it is not pressing against the lever and pushing it down to a 'lean' position.

I know this is a temporary fix, and I will be replacing the spring at a later date.

John, I have not been in touch with Wes, but ifyou could part with a spring I would appreciate it. Let me know and I will PM my address.

Thanks again for every ones help.

[Roadtrip]

Bill - Give Wes a call or drop him an email. He's very good about answering his emails. If no luck with him, drop me a PM. I don't mind parting with one of my spares, but only after you've exhausted the other obvious possibilities.

I really wouldn't characterize the rubber band and paperclip as a "temp" fix . . . . more like an emergency fix. Were you able to account for the two pieces of old spring in there? If not you have a chunk of metal somewhere in there that theoretically foul the mechanism. It's probably just sitting at the bottom of the pump, but I wouldn't want to take unreasonable chances with doing any other damage.

BTW, the compensator link spring holds the link up against the pin on the bottom of the altitude compensator. That sets the link in the correct position. Feels to me like about 6 oz of tension that is produced by the spring. Enough to hold it firm against the pin, but not so much that is collapses the bellows any. It sets the compensator link in the correct "notch" of the vertical notches lever (visible through the rear inspection port). At Houston's elevation and nominal baro pressure, it should be on the 7th notch or so down from the top.

If you can start the engine, rev it up then release the throttle, the compensator link should automaticall reset to the correct notch (as determined by the altitude compensator).

[papajam]

Speaking of springs, if any Spica spring were to become available NEW, would there be any interest?

[Farace]

Quote:

Originally posted by papajam Speaking of springs, if any Spica spring were to become available NEW, would there be any interest?

[papajam]

I'm thinking about a limited run if there's enough interest.