06-08-2006, 11:13 AM
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Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 105
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silly me....
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Originally Posted by ar74
No, I'm certainly no expert on Spicas or Alfas for that matter. All I know is that I spent $1000 replacing the Spica injection pump, only to have the same problem all over again one week later, car won't start.
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yes, indeed..silly me. $1000 is a LOTTA clams to spend a piece of hardware. If you have found something broken or defective with the pump, I would most seriously recommend returning the hardware. Jeez...that money would buy a (used) carb conversion from a known good supplier and get you well started on your next Alfa project. This is my not knowing the specifics of the pump purchase of course.
Best of luck
Mike Pate
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06-08-2006, 12:48 PM
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74 Alfa Spider
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City SD
Posts: 4,698
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ar74
Thanks again. I think I have plenty of work to do now. Actually, I do not think it is the Spica pump as that has been carefully installed and all pertaining parts coordinated. I am leaning toward the ignition or firing order -or tripped inertia switch?
No, I'm certainly no expert on Spicas or Alfas for that matter. All I know is that I spent $1000 replacing the Spica injection pump, only to have the same problem all over again one week later, car won't start. Seems not to be able to catch the spark.
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John Stewart
74 Spider
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06-13-2006, 08:32 PM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Central New York USA
Posts: 175
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Vacuum Relief Valve if stuck closed can starve SPICA
I have come to the conlcusion that before any SPICA tune up, the fuel cap should be removed. When removing it, listen for inrushing air. Inrushing air does not smell like gas. Out rushing air will smell like gas if the tank is under pressure. Inrushing air means the vacuum valve is stuck closed. ANy attempts to tune a SPICA with negative pressure in the tank I believe will negatively affect the quality of your tune up job.
ANyone interested in purchasing a SPICA Cut off solenoid lock nut SPANNER tool should let me know. I have plans to build a few. Using a screwdriver to loosen and tighten this nut is like using Gas Pliers to adjust the stem on your grandfather's gold pocket watch. Eventually you will chew up the threads and most certainly have already ruined the nut itself....all while marginally tightening the nut.
So I hope to make one for myself and some extras for anyone interested in getting one.
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06-15-2006, 07:16 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SE Virginia
Posts: 104
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AlfaRich
...before any SPICA tune up, the fuel cap should be removed. When removing it, listen for inrushing air... Inrushing air means the vacuum valve is stuck closed...
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So, the vacuum valve; is that in the trunk, T'd in-line with the hose from the engine manifold (just looks like a vent)? Shouldn't it allow some vacuum to build up (normal manifold vacuum)? Otherwise it would be a vacuum leak of sorts wouldn't it? Or is the line so small (and long) that the in-flow to the manifold is insignificant?
Steve
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06-16-2006, 11:42 AM
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Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Central New York USA
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Vacuum relief valve
Manifold vacuum is the pressure of the air in the intake manifold vs the atmospheric pressure for theday. Fluid flows from High to Low pressure. Air is a fluid.
The fuel tank vapor and liquid plumbing system is separate from the manifold system. Yes, the injectors are in the manifold, but this is the interface between gasoline delivery and air delivery.
The tank pressure should be and usually is at atmospheric pressure or greater for evaporative emissions control regulation compliance.
My system seemed to work just fine until I ran into cold rain on a hot day. The gasoline and gasoline vapor in the sealed tank cooled off and contracted. I believe this was so severe that it prevented fuel to be sucked out of the tank. This would cause the pumps to not be able to build up sufficient pressure at their outlets to satisfy the Fuel Low Pressure switch. Hence the light lit up and stayed lit until I relieved the vacuum by opening the cap.
I believe the valve is behind the carpet. The schematic shows it near the tank. It definitely is not under the car.
DeFatta bros. said this valve is not available. I will remove and clean it if possible. Haven't had time to dig into the problem yet.When I do, then I'll post my findings.
the quick fix was just to violate all the EPA boogaboos and drill a 1/16 hole in the gas cap. When I fix the vacuum relief valve, i'll just fill the hole w/epoxy.
Last edited by AlfaRich; 06-16-2006 at 11:51 AM.
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06-16-2006, 06:08 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: SE Virginia
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'cept there is a vacuum line running from the engine manifold to the gas tank.
This is where the vacuum valve is.
In the picture below, the valve is in the upper right corner. The line it tees into runs from the vapor can (black plastic) to the engine intake manifold. Then the can connects both to the tank filler neck and to the tank itself (two lines at the base of the can).
Thanks for the basic fluid mechanics lecture BTW. We kinda glossed over that at RPI 
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06-16-2006, 07:04 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: May 2005
Location: OC CA USA
Posts: 1,657
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by AlfaRich
I have come to the conlcusion that before any SPICA tune up, the fuel cap should be removed. When removing it, listen for inrushing air. Inrushing air does not smell like gas. Out rushing air will smell like gas if the tank is under pressure. Inrushing air means the vacuum valve is stuck closed. ANy attempts to tune a SPICA with negative pressure in the tank I believe will negatively affect the quality of your tune up job.
ANyone interested in purchasing a SPICA Cut off solenoid lock nut SPANNER tool should let me know. I have plans to build a few. Using a screwdriver to loosen and tighten this nut is like using Gas Pliers to adjust the stem on your grandfather's gold pocket watch. Eventually you will chew up the threads and most certainly have already ruined the nut itself....all while marginally tightening the nut.
So I hope to make one for myself and some extras for anyone interested in getting one.
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This is a great thread. AR74's original problem has never been solved? If everything else is set correctly I would first look at the fuel filters. After the battery is diconnected and saftey precautions are observed, you can remove the front filter, inspect and replace as needed. In my experience the rear (tank) filter loads up and is often the cause of problems, not limited to: it will run but sometimes lacking top end performance, or it will run fine but if a long drive it will die and then restart after waiting a few minutes. You can clamp off the rear lines and remove the filter, keeping it horizontal, then, over newspaper on concrete to catch the detris, turn the inlet end vertical and tap it, forcefully, on the the newspaper, besides the fuel, you will problably have rust/junk/junk coming out, (compressed air is an option for the adventurous) that is what is blocking the fuel supply. the fuel pressure senders are thiry years old, and IMHO unreialable, inadequite. I have had at least a ten different SPICA alfa's as daily drivers over the last 20+ years, and not one of those cars would not run due to an internal problem with the FI pump. Now some were better than others, and external problems were numerous: improper timing(s), improper linkage adjustment, bad T/A, broken belt, etc; but the most common problem is the rear filter being clogged and remember when the fuel pump is off, the clog lessens as there is no pressure pulling the gunk up against the element of the filter.
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Last edited by rogerspeed; 06-16-2006 at 07:11 PM.
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08-21-2006, 12:38 PM
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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Hi John,
Most appreciate all the Spica info you have prepared in detail. a lifesaver. Just bought a 10/74 Production 2000 GTV ('75 model in Canada) and have a question and it has a Spica 237/2 pump with a model N8500 stamped on its plate. Are you familiar with this model and what characteristics does it have?
Mike in Vancouver, BC
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08-21-2006, 09:56 PM
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74 Alfa Spider
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City SD
Posts: 4,698
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by unicornbc
Hi John,
Most appreciate all the Spica info you have prepared in detail. a lifesaver. Just bought a 10/74 Production 2000 GTV ('75 model in Canada) and have a question and it has a Spica 237/2 pump with a model N8500 stamped on its plate. Are you familiar with this model and what characteristics does it have?
Mike in Vancouver, BC
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A T237/2 pump is for a 1750cc 1971 engine, not a 2000cc engine which your car should have. You should check to be sure that the engine in your car is indeed a 2L and not a 1750 . . . . or someone fitted a 1750 injection pump in place of the original if it's indeed a 2L engine. Although the T237/2 delivers about the same amount of fuel at idle, it will probably be a little leaner in the upper ranges than the spec'd T255/1 pump.
You can ID the engine by looking on the front of the cylinder head for a casting mark:
1750 . . . . circle with an upside down triangle
2000 . . . . circle with a box in the middle and a diagonal line through the box
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John Stewart
74 Spider
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08-21-2006, 10:49 PM
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Thanks John,
It is definitly a 2000 with the cube and diagonal head marking and correct block AR01500 series block. I think someone just replaced the Spica with a good working '71 unit after problems with original.
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08-22-2006, 09:46 AM
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74 Alfa Spider
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City SD
Posts: 4,698
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You might want to keep an eye out on ebay for a used T255/1 pump if you can pick it up cheap. You can use it for a rebuild core whenever your 1750 pump finally goes. That'll put the engine back to spec. Look on the right side of the pump to see if you see any Wes Ingram rebuild markings. It'll be stamped into the aluminum casting and look like the marking on top. . . sort of an "I" and an "E" pushed together. The "HP 150" means the pump was further modified to high performance standard.
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John Stewart
74 Spider
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08-23-2006, 06:28 AM
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Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Arlington Heights, IL
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I had Wes rebuild my pump earlier this year and it came back without being stamped with his mark. Also, came back without the cap over the reference screw. I just wanted to let people know that if someone claims to have a Wes Ingram rebuild and it doesn't have the markings they may not be trying to pull a fast one. On the other hand, it would be easy enough for an unscrupulous person to duplicate Wes' marks.
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Bob Benisek
1974 GTV
1963 A-H 3000
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08-23-2006, 07:36 AM
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74 Alfa Spider
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Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Rapid City SD
Posts: 4,698
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No stamp and no cap? That's interesting. I suppose you could call Wes with a "T" number and see if/when it was rebuilt last, if you were buying a used pump that the owner claimed was rebuilt.
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John Stewart
74 Spider
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10-04-2006, 12:48 PM
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Wow. Surprised he'd not mark one. Call him and ask did he forget or is it something he quit doing or what? For the money he charges, I'd certainly want a mark. <grin>
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[U][I]Brian White[/I][/U]
1984 GTV-6 (Sold to JungleJustice)
1976 Alfetta GTV 2000
2004 Volkswagen Golf R32
1998 BMW 540i 6-speed
2001 Audi Allroad 6-speed
1990 Mazda Miata (SCCA SpecMiata)
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11-21-2007, 12:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davbert
hello all,
I'm replacing my 69gtv 1750 with a spica 2 liter motor. I'm trying to reuse my old TA. Do I need a gasket or sealant in the water jacket port on manifold where the TA plugs in to prevent coolant leaks when I install it on my new motor? I did find faint traces of some orange silicone like substance around the opening of the manifold when I removed it. I don't remember seeing any on the bottom where it is inserted to the spica pump though. Someone at Centerline suggested putting a rubber O ring there. It seems lik | | |
