Rusty GTV floorboards

[daveydog]

I'm really starting to dislike PO's and their fly-by-night bodyshops!
Here's the left front side after I cut it off and before all those little bits being were welded into submission. Almost a quarter inch of filler .



And the other side. Filler poking through and blood pressure rising .



You can't have a classic car like ours and drive around with all that rust and filler hanging out. I'll wager that the so called "body shop" is out of business by now and if not, well, they're filled with all sorts of flammable liquids .

[alfavirusnz]

Join the club. All of us that are doing our own body restoration have encountered this slipshod work, either rust or accident repairs. Biggest surprise for me was when a group of us had a working bee on a friend`s reasonably tidy and rust free series one GT Junior-the deep red paint was crazed so it was being treated to a back to bare metal and repaint-we were there to do the stripping. The roof turned out to be concave with about an inch of bog in the centre and once you knew you could feel the roof panel immediately underneath the headlining-that threw us as it was on the surface a very tidy car but I`ve been surprised by little else and that I`m sure goes for all of us. I just can`t understand it but it happens and is probably still happening but at least people on this Board tend to repair properly-afterall we enthusiastic amateurs don`t have to charge out our time for the work we do on our hobby. I know I couldn`t afford to own the cars I do if I couldn`t do the necessary work-body, paint, trimming & mechanical and I`m sure most of us are the same.
Just think how satisfying it is to rectify a "wrong" and ensure these cars are around for another few decades.


Richard J

`65 Giulia Ti, `69 GT Junior, `74 GTV 2000, `76 Alfetta GTV, `77 Alfetta GTV, `84 GTV6
PLUS very recently acquired (and needing complete restoration)`67 Fiat 500.

[PSk]

There are many cars that appear fantastic that are hiding many sins, some done by PO's that the current owner has no idea about.

A 1750 once turned up that had just been restored that looked stunning, a closer look showed that a jacking mishap had dislodged a chunk of bog from one of the sills ... and yet this car looked like a 100 pointer. A few months later this car was in a concourse. I still wonder to this day if this area was repaired with more bog or done properly ...

We also though have to respect that some peoples pockets are not deep enough for proper repairs or they don't have the confidence to do them themselve, or simply don't want to ... and also most people only own a car for like 5 years max.

One of the reasons why buyer beware when looking at what appears to be a nice GTV/GT, etc. ... atleast with my car I knew what I was buying.
Pete

[gigem75]

"afterall we enthusiastic amateurs don`t have to charge out our time for the work we do on our hobby. I know I couldn`t afford to own the cars I do if I couldn`t do the necessary work-body, paint, trimming & mechanical and I`m sure most of us are the same."
Ahem to that!

[daveydog]

Thanks for the comments guys. I guess I'm just a little pissed off about all the little surprises I'm finding on this car. But she'll be with me for life and I'll get past all the obstacles. I've sure learned a lot about metal working, oh yeah... And when you're up close and personal with your car it kind of grows on you.
Don't tell Wifey but I think I'm in love LOL...

[gigem75]

maybe this will make you feel better

[Super1600]

Too true guys, that is why we are all here on line, sharing our storys, grief with POs and/or in the garage with our 2nd love.. the metal mistress. Indeed don't let on to the wifey or it might be the garage permently !! The joys of rusty metal, thick layers of bog etc.

I remember this red Giulia Super, that a mate had which I so envied him having it. Well as life turned out I am sure glad it in fact wasn't mine, since the car finally got totalled (rear ender) and my brother acquired it for spares. It turned out it was two cars joined together, (only just) with spot welds on the floor rather than seem welded, the C piller and the cills had lumps of wood holding it all together, chicken wire, newspaper and heaps of bog, and yet the dammed thing had looked so straight, and somehow drove pretty well.

Look on the bright side, Dave, Gigem, PSK etc one day we will have our GTVs looking and actually being the way we want them to be. Dave

[my72gtv]

There are very few "rust free" Alfas out there. I started to look years ago and was surprised by how much shoody work I found hidden by a shiny paint job. Once you recognize the areas prone to rust, you can examine cars to feel the filler covering those areas. I found owners who talked about how perfect their cars were and why they were asking so much money. I would aske them to let me inspect them ( I had the cash with me) and when I took out a small magnet, some of them went ballistic.

I ended up finding a Texas car that had not been previously repaired. I saw the rust on the rockers (left side) and what seemd like surface rust on the right. I ended up replacing all 4 floor pans completely, the middle and outer on the left and the outer on the right where it seemed like "surface rust" only.

By now, I am very familiar with MAX at alfaholics since my car has had most panels available replaced (tire well, rear quarter, inner and outer, four wings etc....)

Every time I removed a panel I found a mound of rust crap behind it.
Dont despair, I think ALFA means Rust in Italian.
Alain

[gigem75]

Some may cringe at this but where the outer rocker goes under the front and rear wheel wings there is that gap where it goes under. All I can see this being for is to lower manufacturing costs and a place for moisture to enter between, up and under the wheel wings and the inner rocker panel. I welded up that seem and have a smooth line there now. I know it's not stock but I also know that no moisture will enter there now as well.

[PSk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gigem75 Some may cringe at this but where the outer rocker goes under the front and rear wheel wings there is that gap where it goes under. All I can see this being for is to lower manufacturing costs and a place for moisture to enter between, up and under the wheel wings and the inner rocker panel. I welded up that seem and have a smooth line there now. I know it's not stock but I also know that no moisture will enter there now as well.

[daveydog]

Yes, drain slots. They are spaced along the bottom of the outer rocker panel but one really needs to crawl underneath the car to see them where they are welded to the inner rocker. Mine were mostly clogged with rust and "rustproofing" paint. The PO had obviously known that there was something going on corrosion-wise so he had applied the rust paint over top of the rust. So what happened? . The rust kept doing it's thing under the paint and then it lifted the paint off and it crumbled along the bottom of the sills thereby partially clogging the drain holes. I guess the paint had slowed the rust process down though because on the left side at least the damage was limited to the front and rear wheel panels.

What gigem is referring to are those two wheel panels. They go over the outer rocker at the front and back because the rocker is indented at the front and rear of the door. Unless they're sealed up, water and dirt can get in there and wreak havoc.
Here's a shot of what I mean.



On the right side of the photo you can see where the outer rocker panel indents inwards and then continues on to cover the end of the two inner rockers. On my car, that cover piece was halfway rusted out so that's what I fabbed up and welded back into place. The outer quarter panel covers up this whole area but where it joins the outer rocker at the door, there is a gap where all the crap can get in. Mine were sealed correctly but the PO had removed the rear cover in the front wheel well which was totally wrong if you want to drive it up to the ski hills. I remember when I bought the car that the first thing I did was to clean that area out around the base of the A pillar. I got handfulls of wet sand out of there and I could see the area behind the Bertone badge was already on it's way out.

[daveydog]

I was just looking at that photo and I should tell everyone that because of all the undercoating and such, it was really tough to get both sides of the sheet metal cleaned up well. I did the best I could and then switched my welding machine over to flux core welding wire and reversed the polarity of the machine. Flux core welding sure is a lot smokier than mig but it seems to work much better on dirty metal. Good penetration but lots of smoke. You can see the residue from it in that last photo.

[daveydog]

I managed to get into the garage yesterday (Sat.) and started work on the right rear quarter panel just in front of the wheel. Something's going on underneath this panel:



Even the body filler is bubbling up .



My temper is starting to bubble up now too, grrr... Another cover up job using bog to hide the mess underneath. Look at all the rust in there!



Here's a close up of what I mean. No wonder the drain holes were clogged .


Rust and dirt. This is the third panel I've worked on and all I seem to find behind them is rust and dirt! This is the worst panel yet on this car.

[PSk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by daveydog What gigem is referring to are those two wheel panels.

[daveydog]

Okay PSk, it's time for the novice to teach the Master something . And I really am still a novice... One of the panels behind the front wheels, on my car the left side, was removed and never put back. I know the PO was a skier and he probably thought he looked pretty cool up at Whistler Mountain (where the 2010 Winter Olympics will be held). I've still got his snow tires from 1986 on the car while it's in my garage. The cavity behind the front wheel was filled with wet sand and probably salt when I bought the car in '86 and being a novice Alfa owner back then, I figured I'd clean all four wheel wells with the garden hose and that would be the end of it. But the corrosion process was already well under way by then. But there was very little outward indication. Just a few small paint bubbles. I didn't care though. I had an Alfa Romeo! .
What gigem and I were referring to are the outer painted sheet metal pieces (wings) that had to be cut out to get to the underlying structures ie. A pillars, B pillars etc. There is a gap that follows the door lines that needs to be sealed from the elements. After seeing what you can do with sheet metal you Rock!