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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2008, 12:04 AM
PSk PSk is offline
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I've asked Daron to add his comments to this thread. Hopefully he will .

180OUT, I used to do what your friend did (was even taught so by my brother inlaw) ... and one night I was having a beer with a mate (who I used to race against) and he owns one of the top panel shops in New Zealand and is Rolls Royce approved, etc. and he said:

"The most common mistake amatures make is not sealing the metal before filler and paint, the steel then sweats and before long they get rust again ... in the same places they just fixed"

Now he might have been drunk , but I've also watched Daron's threads and he makes a big deal about sealing bare metal ... leaving cars for as long as possible to let the sealer sink right in.
Pete
ps: Remember really old school guys were taught leading, and that is a bare metal process ... then filler came out and I believe many incorrectly applied it like it was lead .... It's not, it really should be thought about as another layer of paint.
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Last edited by PSk; 05-21-2008 at 12:07 AM.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 05-21-2008, 10:23 AM
180OUT 180OUT is offline
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Tony understood the same processes, Pete, I just think he had a different technique. I suppose, also, there is the question of what is meant by "sealer" and that's something Daron will, perhaps, enlighten us about. Tony was definitely old school, quite orthodox---curmudgeonly so. He'd started painting cars when people used long brushes instead of spray guns.

Tony spent a lot of time on prep work. His view was that good paint was only as good as the surface prepretation: the magic happened because of what was underneath the paint surface. He was scurpulous about not letting paint surfaces sit uncovered (primer is easy to sand). But the filler went on to bare metal. I think the reason he did this was to insure that the subsequent primer would be as thin as possible. His preferred method was to then let the primer sit for awhile (a few weeks, if possible) to allow the solvents to evoperate. His was not a production shop. His work was expensive and cars stayed in his shop for a long time.

Of course much has changed since then. There are new techniques and materials which are designed to reduce the hand labor involved in getting good paint. This is one reason I'm enjoying this thread. I'm going to do the surface prep, but not the paint itself, on my GTV. I think it'll be fun to apply Tony's lessons, but I'm certainly not opposed to using newer, etter techniques. Hopefully, that technology will allow a duffer like me to get a good result.
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Last edited by 180OUT; 05-21-2008 at 10:32 AM.
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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2008, 07:56 PM
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akitaman akitaman is offline
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Hi gang. Here's the winning steps.

If you have the car in bare steel, epoxy prime ASAP. Body work over that. Then primer/surfacer. Next would be Sealer and color. That last step is a same day process. Sealer has a short recoat window. So, don't seal if you are not going to color.

As for etch prime, this is a process if while doing the body work, you cut through to bare steel. Use a little etch, prior to primer/surfacer. Most primer surfacers don't very good hold out (metal protection). I hope this helps.
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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 06-03-2008, 11:08 PM
PSk PSk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akitaman View Post
Hi gang. Here's the winning steps.

If you have the car in bare steel, epoxy prime ASAP. Body work over that.
Cool, thus bog on top of epoxy primer.

Thanks Daron, nothing worse than rust reappearing where you just fixed it!
Pete
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 03-21-2009, 02:15 AM
Il Carrozzieri Il Carrozzieri is offline
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i too am in the restoration game, we use lea for areas such as weld joints where the area is well supported ie door shuts, taillamps ect , and plastic else where.

it just depends on the situation at hand.
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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2009, 02:55 AM
Russell Russell is offline
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Cna you define the term "block out" for me? Also, it seems to me the term etching implies an acid based bath or "picling" agent to destroy any oxidised particles? Like using flux in soldering or brazing?
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 07-16-2009, 07:07 AM
Dragline Dragline is offline
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Originally Posted by Russell View Post
Also, it seems to me the term etching implies an acid based bath or "picling" agent to destroy any oxidised particles? Like using flux in soldering or brazing?
Lifted from Vantaaj's other sticky on paints Paint Systems: A tempest in a Teapot:



Etching or Direct to Metal
Some paints are direct to metal, some are not and require a primer. DTM paints have a small amount of acid in them to etch the metal they are applied to form a chemical bond to the underlying metal. Make sure you know which you have. If you spray a non DTM paint directly on metal, it will flake off, and conversely some DTM paints will blister most primers. Self etching and DTM are the same thing.


A lot of great information on this board. Just not enough hours in the day to read it all.
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