04-06-2009, 08:51 PM
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Location: Stamford, CT
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OK, Time To Paint The Duetto
Greetings:
Over the past two years I have been working to bring my 1967 Duetto to a state of solid runner. With that accomplished, I am now motivated to get her striped and painted.
Sunday she got a good run in the sun (first photo), and was retired to the barn to be dissembled. First off was the bumpers, the trunk lid and the doors.
I took a door and the lid to my favorite dry stripper. The lid will need some repair, so that gets some accelerated attention.
The second shot shows another important ingredient in this phase of the project: a proper YOM 1600 engine. She currently has a nice running 1750 that will eventually go into my '71 GTV.
I hope to continue this dialogue as the program continues.
- Michael
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04-06-2009, 10:03 PM
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Registered User
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Location: San Juan Capistrano
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Michael:
Relocate that exterior mirror back to the door, while you have the car stripped.
__________________
Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA
'63 Guilia spider
'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L
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04-07-2009, 05:27 AM
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Senior Member
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfajay
Michael:
Relocate that exterior mirror back to the door, while you have the car stripped.
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Greetings Alfajay:
Glad you raised the point. I was staring at the fender after I removed it, thinking just that. But, I was also considering leaving it in its current "useless" position for originality. Is this generally considered an "approved" change?
- Michael
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04-07-2009, 06:54 AM
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In the Spider's Nest
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nutley/NJ & Middletown/OH, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cintos
... Is this generally considered an "approved" change?
- Michael
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No. If you are going to show the car at an AROC concours, this change would incur a penalty of 0.7 points out of 100. The only time modifications are not penalized is if they were a factory option when the car was new, or if it is mandated to pass a safety inspection to properly license the vehicle for operation. Of course, many of us do still modify our cars for better functionality and/or enjoyment, as an exceptional car is still going to score well in any competition...
If I were in your shoes, I would be more concerned about who will be driving the car, and what risk, if any, would result from the useless mirror. For example, my '74 Spider has the same round mirror on the driver door (factory original), and I can tell you that it might as well be inside the trunk! The field of vision is very limited, with serious blind spots. As others owners have done, I could change the mirror to the later rectangular shape version finished in chrome, which is functional. However, I really like the shape of the OEM round one, so I've kept it, but I don't use it. When my wife is about to drive the '74, I remind her (always), not to trust the driver's door mirror... And since it does not have a mirror on the passenger side, we simply drive as if we had no mirrors on the doors - like in the old days...
Best regards,
__________________
Enrique
Spider 74, 84 & 87
Milano 88 Verde
164 91S, 93L & 95Q
Co-chairman 2011 AROC-USA Convention:
Alfas in the Bluegrass, Lexington, KY, USA
DARKSIDE MEMBER
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04-07-2009, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunige
No. If you are going to show the car at an AROC concours, this change would incur a penalty of 0.7 points out of 100... When my wife is about to drive the '74, I remind her (always), not to trust the driver's door mirror... And since it does not have a mirror on the passenger side, we simply drive as if we had no mirrors on the doors - like in the old days...
Best regards,
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Greetings Zunige: Thanks for the pointers. The wing mirror seems professionally located, as there is a bracket bar under the metal, held by a screw from above. I think I'll leave it as is for now. Nice thing about a spider/duetto is that it is rarely driven with the top up, and with it down there is a readily available 360 degree view.
- Michael
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04-07-2009, 08:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cintos
Glad you raised the point. I was staring at the fender after I removed it, thinking just that. But, I was also considering leaving it in its current "useless" position for originality. Is this generally considered an "approved" change?
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Michael:
Well, it's your car, and ultimately you will build it as you see fit.
But, just to be clear, regardless of how neatly the installation of the mirror up on the fender was done, that is NOT where the factory put it. I'll bet when you get the paint off the driver's side door, you will find the scars from the original mirror installation.
If it were my car, I'd put it back on the door in a heartbeat, but again, it's up to you.
__________________
Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA
'63 Guilia spider
'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L
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04-07-2009, 03:19 PM
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In the Spider's Nest
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Location: Nutley/NJ & Middletown/OH, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfajay
...But, just to be clear, regardless of how neatly the installation of the mirror up on the fender was done, that is NOT where the factory put it. ...
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Hi Jay,
I think that expanding a bit on this topic is probably helpful to clear-up any misunderstanding... My understanding is that the Spider 1600 (Duetto) was introduced in 1966 with its mirror mounted on the fender. Alfa did move the outside mirror from the fender to the door, but it did so when it started producing the Spider 1750. Production of the Spider 1750 did start in (May?) 1967, but even early 1750 engined cars had their mirrors mounted on the fender... Is this not your understanding?
Cintos,
Please correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't yours a Spider 1600, but with a 1750 engine that was installed by one of the previous owners?
Best regards to all,
__________________
Enrique
Spider 74, 84 & 87
Milano 88 Verde
164 91S, 93L & 95Q
Co-chairman 2011 AROC-USA Convention:
Alfas in the Bluegrass, Lexington, KY, USA
DARKSIDE MEMBER
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04-07-2009, 03:40 PM
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looks like a 1600 Spider to me, and as far as I know, the mirror was mounted on the fender....that's where I kept mine when restoring her...Maybe it's just the one I have, but I can not adjust it to a point where I can actually use the mirror...If I had to do it again, I would probably just mount it on the door, with another one on the passenger side 
__________________
Peter
Currently no Alfas in the stable 
Previously:
'76 Alfasud Ti/'75 GT Junior/'87 Alfa 33
'91 Alfa 75/'95 Alfa 164/'79 Alfa Spider '69 Euro 1750 GTV, '67 Duetto, '84 Spider Veloce
'91 164L
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04-07-2009, 05:29 PM
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Location: Waukesha, WI
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Mirror Position is Optional?
Chris Rees indicates in his book (p. 15) that "There is no definitive position for the external rear-view mirror as the Duetto was not necessarily fitted with any at the factory. Concessionaires often fitted either one or two mirrors before delivery, either mounted on the front wing or, as here, on the door."
That said, I think you could make a case for either location at a concours.
Mine has the mirror mounted on the front fender in the same location as shown. I agree that it is useless in that location, but is also pretty useless on the door. So I guess it's up to you as to where you want to put it.
__________________
Tom
(2) 1967 Duettos (currently being made into one decent driver)
1995 Nero & Tan 164Q as a second daily driver (at least in the summer)
99 Ford Taurus SHO (my daily driver)
99 Jeep Grand Cherokee (Wife's DD and to haul the boat).
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04-07-2009, 06:44 PM
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YEA, lets get some excitement here!!!
OK, this seems to be a topic that has touched on some raw emotion. It's just a mirror, guys. My reading has shown me that peglegtom is on the right track. Photos of the era show both, right from Alfa marketing. The driver's door is a shell after being disassembled today, and I can assure you there are no telltale holes lurking up in there.
Enrique, this Duetto is a 1967. Chassis serial is 105.03.663882
Seems that neither location is ideal, so it stays. thanks for the great discussion!
On a similar note, I will be welding shut the fender hole for the antenna. No radio this time; blanking plate on dash.
- Michael
Last edited by Cintos; 04-07-2009 at 07:09 PM.
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04-07-2009, 07:09 PM
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In the Spider's Nest
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Location: Nutley/NJ & Middletown/OH, USA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peglegtom
Chris Rees indicates in his book (p. 15) that "There is no definitive position for the external rear-view mirror as the Duetto was not necessarily fitted with any at the factory. Concessionaires often fitted either one or two mirrors before delivery, either mounted on the front wing or, as here, on the door."
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Hi Tom,
Unfortunately, Mr. Rees' book does contain inaccuracies. (Several BB posters have also pointed out other of his mistakes.) It should also be noted that Mr. Rees is an author of many automobile books, one of those which happens to be one on the Spider, but he is not an Alfa expert or an Alfa collector (and he doesn't claim to be). As I said he is a writer - a good one, and author of books and articles. The explanation that Mr. Rees gives is incorrect, as the transitions that Alfa made, where features of the prior year were carried over while new ones were being incorporated, are well known within the Alfa circle. Furthermore, in this specific case, I happen to know one of the Alfa employees who drove one of the original Spider 1600 examples in front of the crowds as part of its introduction in Italy. (He was an Alfa employee for all his time in Italy and the pictures taken back then document his involvement.) Last, if one reviews the period brochures, pictures, etc., one can see that there is consistency/evolution in the transition from the fender to the door, unlike what Mr. Rees wrote... Have a look at these from the web site Club Alfa Romeo Duetto, found under "collectibles" / "library" / "brochure":Best regards,
Enrique
P.S. Michael - It's just in the interest of accuracy... The goal is to be able to document these nuances for posterity, and there is really a lot to document. Of course, if anything appears inconclusive, we have to state that...
__________________
Enrique
Spider 74, 84 & 87
Milano 88 Verde
164 91S, 93L & 95Q
Co-chairman 2011 AROC-USA Convention:
Alfas in the Bluegrass, Lexington, KY, USA
DARKSIDE MEMBER
Last edited by Zunige; 04-07-2009 at 07:15 PM.
Reason: Added P.S.
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04-07-2009, 07:45 PM
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Greetings Enrique:
OK on the 
Thanks for the link to the brochure. I actually have a hard copy, but did not think to look at it. I also have an English language hard copy of the Spider 1600 Instruction Book that accompanied the cars, dated 3/67. In at least a dozen images that show the rear view mirror, it is located on the fender.
- Michael
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04-07-2009, 07:58 PM
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Certified Oldschooler
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Location: Spicewood, Texas (in the boonies)
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So the fender mount is 100% useless, and mounting the small round OE mirror on the door, I can attest, is 90% useless. I actually found and mounted 2 Vitaloni "Bravo" rectangular black mirrors, blue tinted, convex passenger side, that actually worked very well and looked fair ("period" anyway). They were a huge safety improvement as my neck just don't swivel so well anymore. Anyway, I got ribbed so much I recently replaced them with two OE round mirrors (non-OE on passenger side, I know) and they do not work nearly as well. I think I'll switch back to the larger Vitaloni's for daily use, perhaps go round OE chrome for club shows/events. Since the bolt pattern is the same, I can go either way. No concourse for me, just a nice, and safe driver.
Adder: I do think I'll find a full-sized tape on convex mirror to go on the rounhd OE-style passenger-side mirror. That may help.
__________________
Anfanuts; Ph.A., B.S.A., U. of NOTASME
Now - Spider Veloce, '69 1750, 4.56 LSD ( pictures)( and more) - since '75 for that early mid-life crisis!
Pinyo - '72 Giulia Super 1.6 to 2L/4.30 LSD ( pictures)( and more) - for that late mid-life crisis!!
Gina Lolo Bianca - early 65 Series 1 Super, binacospino/ lt. blue, straight stock 1600/4.56 (pics)(more pics) - just for the heck of it now!!!
Gone - Benjamin - 76 "Nuovo" to 1600 Super ( pics) - for the 2011 Euro trip
'69 1750 Berlina (wish I still had)
Links
Pinyo's 2010, 10 wk, 8000 mi "Super" Euro-Trip Blog - LINK
Benjamin's 2011, 7 week, 3500 mile "Super2" Euro-Trip Blog - LINK
Gina Lolo's 2011 Alfa Convention, 3350 mile Roadtrip blog - LINK
Last edited by Anfanuts; 04-13-2009 at 04:07 PM.
Reason: Add Adder
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04-07-2009, 07:59 PM
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Weaving a Spider's Web.
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 926
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Our 1966 1600, has the mirror on the fender as the above pic shows.
__________________
93 Spider-147k km
94 Spider CE- 45k miles
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04-07-2009, 09:34 PM
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Registered User
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peglegtom
Chris Rees indicates in his book (p. 15) that "There is no definitive position for the external rear-view mirror as the Duetto was not necessarily fitted with any at the factory. Concessionaires often fitted either one or two mirrors before delivery, either mounted on the front wing or, as here, on the door."
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OK, well live and learn. My early Duetto has two mirrors, one on each door. I find them just as useful as the side mirrors on all of my other cars. I do have a little stick-on circular convex mirror stuck onto each one, and perhaps that's what is useful
Years ago, I had an MGTD with its mirrors way forward on the clamshell fenders. With the help of a friend, I could aim the mirror so it displayed the relevant area - but the first time one got knocked, it became useless - no way I could get it aimed properly solo. And, that's how I perceive a mirror out on a Duetto fender - unless you can reach it while you're driving, it won't do much good.
As I wrote earlier, it's your car Michael - you can do whatever you like - keep the mirror on the fender if it pleases you. Just keep in mind that if you are ever going to make a change, now is the time to do it.
__________________
Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA
'63 Guilia spider
'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L
Last edited by Alfajay; 04-07-2009 at 09:38 PM.
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