How I would build an Alfa Sud race car

[PSk]

Okay for fun this is what I would do if I was even going to think about building another full race Alfa Sud.

BTW: An Alfa Sud at say half race makes a fantastic fun and reliable classic race car. I had heaps of fun with my Alfa Sud when the engine was near standard. The car was fast and embarrassed many much 'faster' cars ... and never gave us any trouble. Yes the brakes sucked, and the clutch was weak but just strong enough to take the abuse. Used to race all weekend and then drive to work. The only issues were the constant rust battle and CV joint failures.

The CV joint failures were caused by the circlip coming out on the inner CV joints and the axle actually popping out of the joint. To solve this we actually tack welded the CV joint to the axle, and NEVER had another failure.

• Purchase an early TI Sud with no rust ... or a rust bucket and perform full body restoration, and seam weld.
• Full cage. I only ran with a half cage, or hoop ... thinking about weight. This did not help the car with flex and the front windscreen pillars kept cracking ... plus we all know now that you cannot have a chassis too stiff.
• Engine needs to be moved as far back in the engine bay as possible. This will improve weight distribution and give heaps more room for a decent radiator. I could never get my engine to cool properly and it was always running real hot. With the sportscar I had a special radiator made ... solved problem and that is what a Sud needs.
• A race clutch needs to be installed. The Alfa clutch is a pussie and needs to be binned straight away. I used a ceramic twin plate clutch with NO springs on the club car and the gear changes were massively faster and never any slip.
• Is the gearbox really strong enough? ... I do not think so, so if rules allow bin it and replace with a Subaru, or Hewland gearbox from a Formula Ford or Pacific. I'm not sure if the wearing out of my gearbox was caused by the useless clutch OR the very sudden power delivery of the 170hp engine ... or they are just weak. If you use the Sud gearbox get the 1300TI box for the better ratios.
• If you stick with the Sud gearbox (which morally you should for classic racing) replace the gear lever rubber bush (at the base of the gear lever) with a rose joint. I did this and it helps hook 5th gear easier as it removes the spring loading to the 3rd and 4th gear plane.
• Install a limited slip diff. I believe some Subaru model is fitable.
• Front struts to be modified to have a threaded spring platform. Critical for corner weighing ... to make the car more balanced under brakes.
• Rear springs and shocks to be replaced by coil over shock units ... with threaded spring platforms.
• Front suspension to be binned and replaced with rose jointed and fully adjustable suspension. The reason for this is that many of the bushes are on their side and require the rubber to flex to have any suspension. Replacing with harder rubber or otherwise ... just caused you to loose any suspension movement. I also think these cars would benifit from much more caster.
• Modify the front wheel strut bottoms to give around 3 degrees negative camber. I did this and this was perfect ... even wear right over the full width of the front tyres.
• Remove the front anti-roll bar.
• Build motor as discuss in my other thread.
• Use 14" wheels. Better traction than 13" ... which I was running.
• Replace front brake discs with ventilated ... whether mounted at the gearbox or at the wheel. Install hoses that catch air and thus blow air on to the brake disc. The front brakes do all the work on a Sud.
• Replace front brake calipers with 4 piston type.
• Replace brake master cylinder setup with proper balance bar arrangement.
• Do not replace the rubber bushes in the rear suspension ... otherwise you will loose you suspension movement.
• Modify rear suspension so you can add camber.
• Run real hard springs in the rear ... as the rear of the car will be the end to control body roll. Front needs to be softish to maintain traction. This ofcourse needs to be played with ... but with bumpy NZ tracks you need to be careful you do not end up with a car that is a nightmare to keep on the track ... especially when it rains.
• Move driver as far back as possible to try and get some weight on the rear of the car. I think when I weighed my car more than 60% of the weight was on the front wheels.
• Drill the cr@p out of the body shell. Roll cage will add stiffness anyway ... but light weight makes these cars fast. I'd possible think about removing the bodywork between the front struts, and replacing that with a single roll cage bar welded in. This may mean that you can access the engine and front brakes (if by the gearbox) easier.

I think that would make a fast and tuneable Sud. If done right it could still be classic raced (maybe with out the rose jointed front suspension ... but with a lot of thinking you could still make the existing strange front suspension adjustable).

My car (with only 170hp) used to give the Lotus Cortinas a very hard time on airfield circuits where the open-ness and lack of tight corners meant that the cornering speed (and not lack of traction) was high and made up for the lack of power. You will always struggle off the start line ...

On other circuits though my car would start off fast and in a few laps fade. This was because the car was not balanced and the front tyres/brakes used to take a hammering. You can fix the brake issue ... but the front tyres are always going to struggle.

Pete

[genius]

I was wondering where to start !!

[87Sprint]

WHAT NO PICTURES!!


Hehe only jking - thats a damb cool concept!

[PSk]

Thinking about this again ... you might get into steering lock issues if you moved the engine back, as this would put a static angle on the outer CV joint.

Thus you are always going to have trouble cooling a 'big hp' Sud motor ... maybe you could run another rad somewhere else?

Pete

[87Sprint]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSk Thinking about this again ... you might get into steering lock issues if you moved the engine back, as this would put a static angle on the outer CV joint. Thus you are always going to have trouble cooling a 'big hp' Sud motor ... maybe you could run another rad somewhere else? Pete

[PSk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 87Sprint what about converting to MidRear?

[87Sprint]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSk Like the car in your avatar?. Yes that would be great ... but not eligible for many classic car meetings Pete

[evilgidget]

Quote:

Thus you are always going to have trouble cooling a 'big hp' Sud motor ... maybe you could run another rad somewhere else?

[Serpent33]

I was looking at the radiator too. The good thing about the S1 is that it had room for a thicker customised radiator wheras the S3 can't. Wonder which would be better option. Having a 5 layers smaller sized or wider standard 2 layers.

[evilgidget]

S3 radiator in behind S2 guards... That way you can have the deeper AND thicker option available

[77SudTi]

Howdy Guys,

Nice set of ideas, would be a quick little car....

I know it would throw the idea of historic racing out the window, but hows this for a crazy idea, Midmount 24V V6 from a 164....Giacatolo style but in a sud...may do that oneday...also weight distribution problems would be solved and you could fit any radiator you want....just an idea at this stage...

[lenus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 77SudTi Howdy Guys, Nice set of ideas, would be a quick little car.... I know it would throw the idea of historic racing out the window, but hows this for a crazy idea, Midmount 24V V6 from a 164....Giacatolo style but in a sud...may do that oneday...also weight distribution problems would be solved and you could fit any radiator you want....just an idea at this stage...

[NYITALIA]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lenus I could be wrong, but didn't that happen as a concept car from alfa romeo back in the 80's with the sprint?

[77SudTi]

yeah thats what Im talking about, pretty cool huh!! Ive seen one here at the annual Classic Adelaide Car rally, had a look at how it was built underneath, i got a few ideas kicking around now (just transpose them into a sud for something different)...and it was damn fast, and that was using a GM V6 from a locally made Commodore...imagine Alfa V6 power, and oooh the sound it could potentially make!!!!!!!

[pepiot]

hello, concerning tha gear box ,i raced 3 years with my proto merlin alfa (sud 1500, same gear box )(see the pic in my avatar ) and never a prob ,but i am obliged to recognise that it was very ligth(420KG) , the major problem was the reliayability of the conrods (the bushings ) after a certain time ,i installed a separate oil system (i do not know the name of that system in