Alfa 33 1.7 16V Turbo

active · #1 (**permalink**) 02-24-2007, 01:13 AM

Hello there,

I'm building my alfa romeo 33 87 year. I have restored all the body and even converted it to 4x4. Now the time for my engine .I've already bought 1.7 16v engine and have a thought to build a turbo engine. Maybe some of you allready build it and have some fotos and advices? Every thoughts are welcome. (Links too

)

London_Alfa · #2 (**permalink**) 02-24-2007, 08:07 AM

I've never done it but I know it can be achieved (at a price). It depends on your budget, more Torque & BHP = more £$. A cheap way around it that may be good for 200BHP is using pistons from a 8v boxer engine which will bring the CR down to around 7.5:1. You could then use moderate psi to get good power. Anything more than 200 BHP and I doubt the stock bottom end and pistons would stand up, or the transmission.

Manifolds will be a big hurdle because I know of no one who has a ready made solution therefore its going to have to be purpose built = £$, unless you can fabricate yourself.

Your budget is the main constraint. With a large budget of say £15000 you could have 400BHP using ahmotorsports 2.0L conversion, low compress. pistons, EMS and intercooler and of course serious headwork. Don't know what you do about the gearbox though. You can do anything, all depends on your budget.

hughqv · #3 (**permalink**) 02-25-2007, 03:02 AM

These cranks are only 3 main bearing, are pretty bullet proof but prob wouldn't allow for too much power I would imagine, although your biggest issue like modifying most engine's is the transmission, especially alfas, wait especially 33s

...

Cant remember where I found these pics, but i think this 1.7 i.e gets around in a sprint, fair f*cking exhaust manifold!

I didn't know you could get 2.0 out of these puppies!?

budweiser_sud · #4 (**permalink**) 02-25-2007, 03:47 AM

AH motorsports do indeed claim they can get 2L out of a 1.7L block - I reckon that is damn well near impossible unless they are creating new blocks from scratch as there just isn't much meat to bore out!

I really think turbo'ing an Alfa boxer isn't worth it, as London_Alfa already mentioned. You are far better off spending the money on handling and improving engine breathing.

I do have some literature that states that Alfa Romeo had actually started work on a 2L boxer engine when Fiat cut the project short in favour of the inline 4's that went into the 145/146/155's etc. Whether or not they built a unit with a 5 bearing crank is anyones guess (but probably not). Alfa really should have continued with the boxer series, they could have refined it a lot more and we wouldn't see so many damn Subaru WRX's on the roads

~Benjamin

active · #5 (**permalink**) 02-25-2007, 08:32 AM

To London Alfa:

Are you shure that 1.7 8v pistons will fit to 16v engine? I have such engine in my garage. My point is to gain about 220hp. I think it will be enough.

Tp hughqv: Maybe you have link about this engine build process ?

Thanks in advance

Rosso33 · #6 (**permalink**) 02-25-2007, 10:59 AM

Those pics that hughqv sent are from a Finnish sprint and actually it's a 1.5 8v... We have a Finnish Alfa Romeo forum where the builder has told something about the project but I assume that you guys don't understand Finnish...

lenus · #7 (**permalink**) 02-26-2007, 01:27 AM

It'd likely be cheaper to buy a wrecked subaru wrx, with it's awd dif's, gearbox, and it's 5 bearing engine.

It would be way more reliable, probabably be cheaper to fit, and you'd have the off the shelf support for parts...

But then it wouldn't really be an alfa. But if you turbo a 16v engine, your going to be prone to breaking other bits, like gearboxes, especially with 4x4.

Also, depending on what 4x4 gearbox you have, whether it's from a permanent 4 or a quattro wagon, you could have more reliability issues, especially in the case of the former, with it's viscous being source from a fiat panda initially, its' already running nearly twice the power it was designed for.

And the quatrro wagon bits, containing a locked rear dif, road driving could be difficult..

lenus.

London_Alfa · #8 (**permalink**) 02-28-2007, 05:44 AM

You can indeed use 8v pistons in a 16v engine. The block is exactly the same you see, only the head is different therefore the pistons are interchangeable.

With regards to the AHMotorsports 2.0l conversion it is genuine. The extra capacity is achieved by using a specially built crank which gives a longer stroke as well as larger pistons.

I think awesome things are achieveable through turbocharging a converted 2.0l 16v if done properly. As I said before it is the gearbox which is a big constraint. AH Motorport have achieved 260 bhp using a normally aspirated 2.0l 16v. Could even go with 2 turbos!

What is the most ammount of HP that any one has ever put through a 16v gearbox? Perhaps everyone should post the max they have ever put through one of these transmissions.

active · #9 (**permalink**) 02-28-2007, 08:46 AM

There is alfa rome sprint with 1.5 turbo engine. It seems he gain 180hp~ and using standart gearbox, just the clutch is custom.
Some links:
http://logic.no-ip.info/alfarom/html/projekt.html
http://logic.no-ip.info/alfarom/html/motor.html

budweiser_sud · #10 (**permalink**) 02-28-2007, 12:21 PM

That last installation was reasonably well executed, great work for a DIY job. But the unequal length headers may be an issue and it is not obvious if he has lowered the compression ratio. Also running boost through carburetors is probably asking for trouble - too much boost and you start blowing petrol out through the seals, and how about tuning?! Using carbs is probably asking for detonation unless he is running quite low boost.

What about supercharging? Has anyone seen a supercharger fitted to a 16V boxer? One issue I've heard with boosting the 16V is that pressue is lost through the seals where the Dellorto throttle bodies are.

The headers in the pictures that HughQV posted are a work of art!

~Benjamin

hughqv · #11 (**permalink**) 03-01-2007, 04:07 AM

not a 16v but.. a fair rats nest at that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by budweiser_sud

That last installation was reasonably well executed, great work for a DIY job. But the unequal length headers may be an issue and it is not obvious if he has lowered the compression ratio. Also running boost through carburetors is probably asking for trouble - too much boost and you start blowing petrol out through the seals, and how about tuning?! Using carbs is probably asking for detonation unless he is running quite low boost.

What about supercharging? Has anyone seen a supercharger fitted to a 16V boxer? One issue I've heard with boosting the 16V is that pressue is lost through the seals where the Dellorto throttle bodies are.

The headers in the pictures that HughQV posted are a work of art!

~Benjamin

active · #12 (**permalink**) 03-04-2007, 10:28 AM

Hm.. Intresting. How much I could boost the engine with 7.5:1 cr. I'm afraid the car will be not sensitive with acceleration with low boost and I can burn the pistons with big boost. I checked out all alfa's with turbo and it seems that all of them have 8:1 cr. What do you think about this?

GTVnut · #13 (**permalink**) 03-05-2007, 06:03 AM

I think Lenus is on the money here, lets face it WRX 5 bearing technology and jap reliability is a tough combination to beat!

RGC33 · #14 (**permalink**) 08-06-2007, 04:08 AM

Hi Guys,
I am looking for some advice, I was in the middle of building a turbo charged 16v engine for my 1985 built 33, when we discovered the chase wasn't up to the job

. Now I was thinking if I have to get a new body, I should get the best possible one out there. I was wondering about the potential of the QV permeant 4's. Are these cars up to running high HP (200), how do they handle on tarmac, or am I best off going for a normal 16V.
Any thoughts?
Cheers Rueben

lenus · #15 (**permalink**) 08-06-2007, 04:34 AM

Best off going the normal 16v

the p4's are terrible at reliably putting down high hp.

lenus.