Andy Burton Ferrari powered Alfasprint

[87Sprint]

very interesting! so how much further do the new axels and wheel combo stick out? i have seen a few approaches to flaring - i think the best is to keep some of the body lines flowing through...having the line running through the middle and then loosing it in a curve (such as in the giocattollo kit) looses some of the original styling imho.. so is the car at a drivable stage? must be allot of fun!

cheers - lucas

[BigSud]

It's not drivable as yet, and won't be for at least six months yet.

The whole 164 drivetrain, including subframe, struts, and gearbox is now in the back of the sprint - what's missing is the electrics, cooling, and bodywork to cover the track increase.

Each wheel has been moved outboards by about 80 mm, for a total rear track increase of a bit over six inches. This is where the real bodywork issue comes in.

Lucas is dead right about the GioCattolo styling - it's probably 80% of the way towards what we want, but just too bulbous - having lost "the line"

I'd really like to take Benjamin's approach, and fabricate the flares in steel or aluminium - but I'm too much of a pragmatist. For one, I don't have the skills to do it! As a secondary consideration, I also have a fridge full of carbon fibre prepreg mat - a donation from a mate whose fridge died. Thirdly - the car that Damon and I are building will be a race car (road legal, for road racing duties) so eventually it will end up having a corner knocked off somehow - and I suspect I'll be less heartbroken if it's relatively easy to replace.

I have a heap of other photos - including how the subframe fits etc. I'll need to resize them before posting any more Wait until you see the front suspension...

Chris

[Manu_Sprint]

Very interesting project !!!!

We´re expecting those photos !!!!

What´re you going to do about mass distribution on the front ? Drifting may be very difficult with the V6 engine back.....

[BigSud]

Sorry! They're coming - been out of town.

Chris

[evanbottcher]

I'd still love to see some more photos...! Trying to convince my mechanic here in Melbourne that this is a good idea...

[BigSud]

Thanks to Evan for the reminder! I've now finally managed to figure out how to shrink jpegs, so here goes. There are 21 pix in all, so I'll start from the beginning and see if there's any interest in me posting more.

The first pic shows how we mounted the car in order to do the work. It's on a big rotisserie, which is itself on a wheeled dolly. It could be wheeled around, and rotated. Yes, that's a sud hub at either end acting as the pivot. The two vertical bars were welded on to hold it perfectly horizontal once we'd got to that point and needed to climb around inside.


The second pic shows how we cut the metal out - with a sabre saw (I think the 'mericans call it a "sawzall"). If you look really closely at Damon's left foot, you can see that we already had the subframe mounted underneath, before any serious cutting was done. The car had spent a lot of time upside down, having the centreline established, being cleaned and repainted (the bottom is shiny black - it's the nicest bit of the car so far...) and we'd done all of the critical measuring, welding etc with it like that.


The third pic shows the car up the right way, with the floor removed, subframe in, and the strut top positions being established. Because its a 164 front end, the distance between the strut tops was one of the key go/no-go measurements. This was the measurement we took one night after too many beers, with a Sprint and 164 parked next to each other - from that point it was all downhill...


So, that's it for now. To avoid writing a misdirected novel, I'll post some more stuff once I know what people are keen to see.

Evan - if your Melbourne-based mechanic needs convincing, tell him to look up Damon Earwaker at Rick Damelian Alfa. He's actually seen the thing in the flesh, when he was spannering for our Targa team in 2004. Sadly, due to two other Targas, and an unexpected house move, not a lot more has happened since. However, that is about to change - I'm dead keen to actually drive this thing!

Chris

[evanbottcher]

Strewth! Nice rotisserie.

Damon Earwaker actually mentioned this project to me a year or so back and has had me thinking ever since - nice to see some pictures of it!

Do you have pictures of the engine in place? Is the gearshift on the 164 cable operated like the 156? How will you fix the 164 struts in one direction, just bolt them to something? You'll get a nice amount of adjustable toe! Did you consider just building double a-arms for the back?

This is an AWESOME project and I hope to see some further progress real soon.

thanks,
Evan.

[BigSud]

That was fast!

Luckily I'm ready with more shots to answer all questions. Apart from the most obvious one - "why are you doing this?"

Here's a closeup of how we mounted the front of the subframe. As you can see it actually bolts straight through the original sprint chassis rails! We put some crush tubes and doubler plates in there to prevent any mischief.


Another closeup, this time of the back of the subframe. We weren't so lucky this time, so we had to make the tube bridge you see here. It also has crush tubes, and you'll see in later photos that it's cross-braced. Really, this part just acts as the mounting for the body onto the cage/engine. It's very obvious from later photos - most of the structural strength of the rear of the car is in the cage.


This slightly odd picture of the motor shows how we determined clearances etc for the engine bay. The wire cage surrounds the motor with enough clearance to make everybody happy - and plugs into the subframe for location. So, rather than install the motor to determine what will/won't fit, we just manoeuvered this wire thing in and out. Good old kiwi number 8 wire engineering...


And here is a closeup of the RH strut top. The red thing is a magnetic welding clamp, and the piece of square bar is just temporarily tacked in place to hold everything square whilst final measurements and fitting up was going on. If you look closely, you can see that the mounts are slotted to allow +/- 2 degrees camber variation for the rear struts.


This is what the same piece ended up looking like, about three months later. The cage picks up on the other side of the strut top, attached to a piece of 3 mm plate.


More to come, including shots of the motor in place - but to answer Evan's other question, the 164 uses a rod gear linkage, and apart from potential interference with other items (like the driver's elbow ) it should be relatively straightforward to engineer. Other photos have this detail.

Chris

[87Sprint]

wow what a project! thats so cool... cant wait to see the rest

[Ziggy]

just as a note, Andy no longer uses the Sprint in competion...he's built a 4 wheel drive Pug 306 with mid mounter Cosworth v6. He has designed and built his own transmision too.....check the car out..
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...&q=andy+burton
Ooo and have u seen Tim Lewis's championship winning sprint?..2.0 litre boxer 250 bhp..real nice..and Aidie hawkins 33..wowzer..
http://www.alfaracer.com/
and
http://www.ahmotorsports.co.uk/
Nice rear conversion btw...hope it goes well..
Zig

[Barryh]

Chris,Very interesting indeed.A mate and I have just these past few days been discussing the exact same project,but into a Lancia Intergrale.
We are rather set on the 12valve v6 simply for the sounds emanating from the exhausts..It will also be turbocharged,but remains a 30l in size..

As a matter of interest,I did an Alfasud ti 1200 midmount with a Berlina 20l four in 1981.Entered in a local rally and promptly rolled the thing..

The Lancia we are going to use for the project.

[gt601]

There was an article in Auto Italia some years ago where some guy stuffed a 164 S setup into a Lancia Scorpian/Monte Carlo. I searched for some pics but couldn't find any. It was a great conversion.
Paul

[BigSud]

Wow! Looks like there are more than just a few nutters out there! I REALLY like the idea of the Integrale conversion, and yes the noise is important - otherwise we would have supercharged a twinspark 164 setup.

I would have thought that the Integrale was fast enough as it was though? Still, you can never have too much power.

The sud twincam conversion is intriguing - what did you do for a gearbox?

Anway, here are some more pix. The first one is of the back of the car, unpainted but ready for the trial fitment of the motor.


The second one shows the same parts, from the front after a bit of painting. You can see clearly the cross-bracing and integration of the cage into the structure.


The third photo shows the engine all in place, with suspension etc.


More to come!

Chris

[PSk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barryh Chris,Very interesting indeed.A mate and I have just these past few days been discussing the exact same project,but into a Lancia Intergrale. We are rather set on the 12valve v6 simply for the sounds emanating from the exhausts..It will also be turbocharged,but remains a 30l in size.. As a matter of interest,I did an Alfasud ti 1200 midmount with a Berlina 20l four in 1981.Entered in a local rally and promptly rolled the thing.. The Lancia we are going to use for the project.

[alfasprinter]

PSK im hoping your talking about the integrale not the sprint