Reinforcing 33 gearbox

[Klevyn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by [HUN]Gery83 Köszönöm! Are you a member of AlfaAmore.hu?

[[HUN]Gery83]

How come that you live in Hungary?

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Originally Posted by Klevyn Szivesen! Unfortunately not,my hungarian is not that good!

[Klevyn]

Quote:

Originally Posted by [HUN]Gery83 How come that you live in Hungary?

[[HUN]Gery83]

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Originally Posted by Klevyn I'm a medical student!

[[HUN]Gery83]

Not that big difference in size after all. For the photo aligned so, that the input shafts endings are in the same line. Plain to see, that the the gear selector needs to be extended.

[PSk]

Sorry to be potentially blunt, but if you don't move that engine back instead of extending the gear lever (or as well as) you really are going to end up with a poor handling car.

Since you will not have front axles to worry about the engine could go right back against the front bulkhead, just cut the battery and heater area away and replace the strength lost with a strut brace tube structure. Then you will end up with a traditional front engine location (on the front axle line instead of infront of it), but with the added advantage of the lower CoG.

Otherwise I cannot really see the point of this project. These cars handle large horsepower poorly because they are front wheel drive but ALSO because there is too much weight on the front axle because the engine is in front of it. So yes converting to rear wheel drive will take part of the front tyre torture away but it will still understeer poorly due to poor chassis balance.

A lot of racing Suds remove that battery and heater area just for better access for their mechanics anyway ... so no big deal to cut it away.

Best
Pete

[[HUN]Gery83]

Thanks for the advice!
I need to get a proper TIG welder first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSk Sorry to be potentially blunt, but if you don't move that engine back instead of extending the gear lever (or as well as) you really are going to end up with a poor handling car. Since you will not have front axles to worry about the engine could go right back against the front bulkhead, just cut the battery and heater area away and replace the strength lost with a strut brace tube structure. Then you will end up with a traditional front engine location (on the front axle line instead of infront of it), but with the added advantage of the lower CoG. Otherwise I cannot really see the point of this project. These cars handle large horsepower poorly because they are front wheel drive but ALSO because there is too much weight on the front axle because the engine is in front of it. So yes converting to rear wheel drive will take part of the front tyre torture away but it will still understeer poorly due to poor chassis balance. A lot of racing Suds remove that battery and heater area just for better access for their mechanics anyway ... so no big deal to cut it away. Best Pete

[PSk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by [HUN]Gery83 Thanks for the advice! I need to get a proper TIG welder first.

[[HUN]Gery83]

I'm thinking about this since a few hours, and there is a big problem with your solution. I can not cut away that whole piece, because the chassics number is located on it. So if I cut it away, there is no chance that I get a license plate for my car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSk Sorry to be potentially blunt, but if you don't move that engine back instead of extending the gear lever (or as well as) you really are going to end up with a poor handling car. Since you will not have front axles to worry about the engine could go right back against the front bulkhead, just cut the battery and heater area away and replace the strength lost with a strut brace tube structure. Then you will end up with a traditional front engine location (on the front axle line instead of infront of it), but with the added advantage of the lower CoG. Otherwise I cannot really see the point of this project. These cars handle large horsepower poorly because they are front wheel drive but ALSO because there is too much weight on the front axle because the engine is in front of it. So yes converting to rear wheel drive will take part of the front tyre torture away but it will still understeer poorly due to poor chassis balance. A lot of racing Suds remove that battery and heater area just for better access for their mechanics anyway ... so no big deal to cut it away. Best Pete

[PSk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by [HUN]Gery83 I'm thinking about this since a few hours, and there is a big problem with your solution. I can not cut away that whole piece, because the chassics number is located on it. So if I cut it away, there is no chance that I get a license plate for my car.

[81Sprint]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSk Sorry to be potentially blunt, but if you don't move that engine back instead of extending the gear lever (or as well as) you really are going to end up with a poor handling car. Since you will not have front axles to worry about the engine could go right back against the front bulkhead, just cut the battery and heater area away and replace the strength lost with a strut brace tube structure. Then you will end up with a traditional front engine location (on the front axle line instead of infront of it), but with the added advantage of the lower CoG. Otherwise I cannot really see the point of this project. These cars handle large horsepower poorly because they are front wheel drive but ALSO because there is too much weight on the front axle because the engine is in front of it. So yes converting to rear wheel drive will take part of the front tyre torture away but it will still understeer poorly due to poor chassis balance. A lot of racing Suds remove that battery and heater area just for better access for their mechanics anyway ... so no big deal to cut it away. Best Pete

[PSk]

My 180hp Sud was as quick as highly modified Lotus Cortina's in NZ racing, and it was not that modified. Just springs and shocks, extra negative camber, brake pads and horsepower, Alfetta rear calipers (handbrake on the rear) and brake balance adjusted, minus trim, etc.

For the first couple of laps it would be right up there, admittedly with me driving 10/10ths, and then it would drift back each lap as the front tyres struggled, brakes (front brakes do ALL the work on a Sud).

The car was absolutely brilliant when it only had about 100-120hp and used to embarrass many, but with 180hp it wore itself out during a race.

I stuck the same motor in a space frame chassis + rear wheel drive with 20 more hp from better exhaust extractors and the resulting car was awesome. Perfect 50/50 weight distribution and it could sit on qualifying lap times all day long.

Yes front wheel drive technology has moved on since back in the 90's when I raced this car, but if you are going to convert a Sud chassis to rear wheel drive you just have to do as much as possible to move that very forward engine location back to get a better chassis balance.

I loved that little Sud, but I would never spend all the $'s to race another one. You could spend the same amount on say a Ford Escort, or maybe even an Alfetta, and end up with a far better race car.
Pete

[81Sprint]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PSk My 180hp Sud was as quick as highly modified Lotus Cortina's in NZ racing, and it was not that modified. Just springs and shocks, extra negative camber, brake pads and horsepower, Alfetta rear calipers (handbrake on the rear) and brake balance adjusted, minus trim, etc. For the first couple of laps it would be right up there, admittedly with me driving 10/10ths, and then it would drift back each lap as the front tyres struggled, brakes (front brakes do ALL the work on a Sud). The car was absolutely brilliant when it only had about 100-120hp and used to embarrass many, but with 180hp it wore itself out during a race. I stuck the same motor in a space frame chassis + rear wheel drive with 20 more hp from better exhaust extractors and the resulting car was awesome. Perfect 50/50 weight distribution and it could sit on qualifying lap times all day long. Yes front wheel drive technology has moved on since back in the 90's when I raced this car, but if you are going to convert a Sud chassis to rear wheel drive you just have to do as much as possible to move that very forward engine location back to get a better chassis balance. I loved that little Sud, but I would never spend all the $'s to race another one. You could spend the same amount on say a Ford Escort, or maybe even an Alfetta, and end up with a far better race car. Pete

[PSk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 81Sprint I think in one of the under 1600cc CAMS class if someone put half as much effort that goes into one of the front running 105's into a Sud or Sprint it would be a seriously competitive car.