09-29-2008, 05:22 PM
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Thanks for the comments - There is an effective "triangulated in the corners" bulkhead structure behind the engine - between the strut towers-(these tie into the "C" pillar and roof structure). The front cross member is from the front of the 164 so strong for crash tests and will have more bracing into the Sprint floor cross member/ "B" pillars to make the centre of the Sprint resist torsion forces and distribute the engine/road reaction torque into the floor structure. The sills will have significant box section reinforcement inside - running the length of them. In the pictures that I have of the two Alfa 6C's that were built (?) there was no roll cage fitted, so presumeably Alfa/Autodelta thought the shells strong enough?
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09-29-2008, 05:32 PM
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The rollcage comment was because I care about you, not for chassis strength.
Best
Pete
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'71 1750 Series 2 GTV: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?p=208078
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09-30-2008, 05:12 PM
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk
The rollcage comment was because I care about you, not for chassis strength.
Best
Pete
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Seriously though, the Giacattolo used a tubular sub frame to attached the engine and gearbox to the Alfa sprint chassis. I still have the urge to stick a longitudally mounted V6 into my Alfasud, and this is exactly how I would do it:
- remove the "bottom end" of the rear of the sud chassis and attach mounting points for the engine/gearbox subframe
- construct a tubular subframe which holds the engine, gearbox, suspension, and brakes (in board brakes would be a great idea)
- construct a suitable firewall using sheet metal, with a glass window between the roof and stopping just above the height of the engine (a nice curved window like the Dino 246 would be great, but read costly!)
- spend the next 2-3 years sorting out all the little issues like throttle and gearbox linkages, electrics, ventillation, coolant plumbing, air conditioning (it *will* get hot with the V6 20cm behind you)
Hmmm, maybe I should just buy that Dino GT4 thats on ebay at the moment for $18k instead, probably a lot easier than above!
~Benjamin
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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][U]Daily Drivers[/U][/FONT]
-'91 Alfa 33 series 3 16v
-'90 Alfa 164 3L 12V
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[U]For Sale[/U]
-'82 Alfetta Sedan - in bits, take me, I'm free!
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09-30-2008, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by budweiser_sud
Well that sounded remarkably gay! LOL...
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One of the great things about Suds is they are very light/weak(?) and thus with 200hp really bloody fast   ... there also is a post recently also about a Sud crash in NZ on a race track (that I've done thousands of laps on) called Pukekohe and the rollcage saved the occupants lives big time.
I do hope that this car is completed, but now is the time for an engineer to consult and including a roll cage (if designed properly) would be a good way to design/incorporate a clever spaceframe chassis ...
Pete
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ps: Remember it's all just opinions
'71 1750 Series 2 GTV: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?p=208078
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10-01-2008, 03:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk
now is the time for an engineer to consult and including a roll cage (if designed properly) would be a good way to design/incorporate a clever spaceframe chassis ...
Pete
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Space frame will add weight, but more importantly strength. Tie-ing it into the chassis already there will be the hard part. Do it properly and you have a winner. I have grave reservations about sheet metal cutting the mustard, if you get what I mean...
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Last edited by 77SudTi; 10-01-2008 at 03:02 AM.
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10-01-2008, 10:38 AM
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Thanks again for the comments and I do take my - and others, safety seriously - I have no intention of driving a car that is likely to "come to pieces" and I am not going to drive around right angle bends at 150mph...... This is to be an interesting road car that is going to be used occasionally on high days and sunny days that I have built.
As I mentioned before I have built and raced 5 different drag race cars so do have a reasonable amount of experience and knowledge.
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10-01-2008, 05:34 PM
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Looking forward to seeing this interesting project come together .
Pete
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ps: Remember it's all just opinions
'71 1750 Series 2 GTV: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?p=208078
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10-01-2008, 10:02 PM
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Like this one on OZ Ebay.
Alfa Sprint sports sedan rolling shell.
Full space frame including roll cage with mid mount engine position.
John.
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Alfa 75 2.5 Auto(Red)
Alfa 75 3.0 qv Potenziata (Black) Track car
Alfa 75 3.0 qv Potenziata (Concourse)
Alfa GTV6 GP 3.0 (Red)
Alfa GTV6 GP (Concourse)
Alfa GTV6 SA 3.3 AHMotorsport 226.3 Hp ATW (Grey).
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10-01-2008, 10:06 PM
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Some more pics
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Alfa 75 2.5 Auto(Red)
Alfa 75 3.0 qv Potenziata (Black) Track car
Alfa 75 3.0 qv Potenziata (Concourse)
Alfa GTV6 GP 3.0 (Red)
Alfa GTV6 GP (Concourse)
Alfa GTV6 SA 3.3 AHMotorsport 226.3 Hp ATW (Grey).
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10-01-2008, 10:29 PM
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For $5k the shocks and wheels are probably worth that alone!
~Benjamin
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[FONT="Comic Sans MS"][U]Daily Drivers[/U][/FONT]
-'91 Alfa 33 series 3 16v
-'90 Alfa 164 3L 12V
[U]Projects[/U]
-'82 Alfasud Ti mid-engine Alfa V6 project coming soon!
[U]For Sale[/U]
-'82 Alfetta Sedan - in bits, take me, I'm free!
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10-02-2008, 06:40 AM
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Ive seen this thread on the alfa forum and thought exactly the same. a 230 bhp engine fastened to body panels at the back of a rusty uk based sprint ?? The first 164 had a massive chassis problem at the front when first introduced so what it will be like at the back is any ones guess.Although its a brave idea it will probably be ok as a drag car but as far as a useable road car I have my doubts.
havin said that really hope it works out and proves us all wrong and its good to see someone havin a go
btw the one one on ozzy ebay looks more like it
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10-03-2008, 10:43 AM
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Well it certainly is an impressive race car basis with lots of work still to do and is well worth the price - but not much Alfa or Sprint in there?
Regarding my project I didn't want to cut up a good Sprint -so only rusty ones are left! But nearly all the rust is in places that are being removed or replaced.
I would like to know more of the 164 problems that Daz mentioned but as my version has removed the steering forces from the situation and supports the effective Mid mount V6 front and rear, I am confident that my installation will be a well mannered road car at the sort of speeds that are sensible and legal. It is the challenge of engineering and building the car myself, in a cost effective fashion, that really is my motivation.
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10-04-2008, 08:14 AM
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dont get me wrong I think what your doing is brave and i think the comments made are constructive and there to make you aware of what may turn into a problem. but im sure you must know the back will need stiffenning if its to carry that v6.Your also right in that the main problems with the 164 when it first arrived was torque steer in the early cars, and i beleived they lowered the centre of gravity in the later cars,but as youve no steering there at the back then your ok.Havin said that the v6 is a steam train of an engine and in such a light chassis of the sprint whos engine and bulk heads (two of them) are at the front then make sure you strengthen the back end.
Again I think what youre doin is great reading and i really cant wait to see it progress.I am also following it in the other forum
Did you see the two engined 164 and the twin v6 engined sud at any of the UK meets?
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10-04-2008, 10:53 AM
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Hi Daz
Yes I have seen the twin engined Sud at MITCAR - an impressive machine!
I'm making steady progress and will be doing quite a lot more metal work at the end of the month. As a very crude test though, I have jacked the car up at various points on the rear sub frame and it goes up evenly ie no obvious twisting or bending:- so - in the words of an ill fated Labour party song ...."Sprints will only get stronger....."
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10-18-2008, 01:35 PM
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Just a quick update as I have now sorted the rear brakes/handbrake out and will post some pics when I have downloaded from the camera.
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