03-18-2005, 07:06 PM
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AlfaSud brake question
I've finally got my project AlfaSud home after living elsewhere for quite some time & I'm looking into installing decent brakes...
The front is going to be a direct swap with a 1.7 33 so I can have outboard brakes & vented discs at the business end (althought I'm going to swap the callipers for something a little more efficient...)...this bit of the surgery is, so I've been told, relatively simple...
My problem is what to do with the blunt end...with removing the front outboards I also loose the handbrake, which is causing a bit of a problem! I'm not too keen on installing a hydraulic handbrake as the man at the testing station is likely to have a bit of a sense of humour failure at such a set up  . Has anyone else done this conversion! Is there a rear callpier that has a cable operated handbrake which I could directly replace the ones on the Sud .
The car is destined for the track (if I finally finish it!) but I would like to keep it road legal as it makes it a damn site easier moving it from place to place...
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.
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03-19-2005, 01:05 AM
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How about putting a complete Alfa Romeo 33 rear end in your Sud, complete with hand brake  Virtually a bolt on job, with just a few mods that need to be done to the rear floorpan (for running hand brake cables) I know you've gone from Discs to drums, but at least it will work.....
The other idea I had was useing FWD Ford Laser (Aussie ver) rear disks with the hand brake mech, but alas I'll have to do some major mods....put that into the "oneday" job list! Also it has the benfit of changeing the stud pattern of the wheels to 100PCD instead of 98.....very important here if your after aftermarket wheels....(virtually impossible to get aftermarket wheels for a 33/sud/spint here)
Also of note:
I was talking to a bloke at the local yearly Alfa Show down here, Alfa's in Clover, he had a Alfa Romeo 33 (sr3) with a very intresting brake setup. Holden VL Turbo Calipers (same as Corvette) and Mitsubitishi Magna 3 Litre Discs (correct offset and size for the VL calipers).....looked very nice.
I can speak from experience how good the VL turbo brakes are since I've owned one  Still since a Alfa 33 is so much lighter than a VL Turbo (1265kg vs 910kg) it should be a VERY effective brake setup.....
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Last edited by kaBOOM; 03-21-2005 at 02:20 AM.
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03-19-2005, 01:39 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions
I thought about a 33 rear end but I'd like to retain discs...I'll do it if I can find a late model 33 Nuovo to pilage as they had (or are supposed to have had rear discs)..
...as for putting Holden bits on my Alfa !?! 
Cheers
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03-19-2005, 03:05 PM
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Genius, How about you post a pic of the stock rear caliper & take measurements of the bolt holes, offset etc. I'll be going for a wander around a wrecking yard later on in the week, so I might keep an eye out on some rear calipers that ~might~ fit that have an integral handbrake.
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03-19-2005, 03:26 PM
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Evil...nice to hear from you...
I'll have to get back to you on the measurements etc...I've got to get under the car again some time today ( sometines I think I should roll out my sleeping bag under the sodding thing!)...
I also may have come up with a solution...apparantly Mr Alfa in one of his more generous moments equipped one of the 33 models with rear discs ! (Thats the good bit)...now all I have to do is track down which model (the bad bit) and then transplant the entire rear end (the ugly bit)...
...either that or I have to have a good sit down and decide whether I pull the thing off the road permanently and just put a line-lock in the rear brake line !
Cheers
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03-19-2005, 03:54 PM
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Genius,
Simply buy Alfetta GTV rear calipers ... bolt straight on the rear of an Alfa Sud. The only thing you require is some spacers, but the hole centres and offset are exactly the same ... I know I've don't the conversion.
You then need to work out how to get the handbrake to work ... I had special cables made, etc. ... I though could do a better job if I had to do this again, ie. it was not that good a handbrake ...  , but that was my fault.
Pete
ps: Actually have you checked that the inboard front calipers do not simply bolt straight on to the rear axle? ... 'cause the Alfetta GTV rear calipers are very similar. Thus as you are replacing the front calipers you already have handbrake calipers spare ... even if hole centres and offsets are different, just get your angle grinder out and welder and sort it out 
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Last edited by PSk; 03-19-2005 at 03:56 PM.
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03-19-2005, 09:29 PM
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I am also looking at braking options for my Alfasud series 3 (hatch), and my brother's Alfasud series 1. The standard braking set up is already quite good, but the front handbrake cable is a total pain. I've tried a new cable, and 2 secondhand cables, and the handbrake still refuses to work properly.
The guy at Alfa's in Clover with the 33 16V thats got the holden brakes has a hydraulic handbrake configuration operating on rear Alfasud calipers/discs. The stock handbrake mechanism has been connected to a girling brake most without a resovior. I am pretty sure this set up it illegal in Australia, however it is not policed very well so most people get away with it
Using Alfetta GTV calipers with the cable mechanism certainly sounds like a decent idea, but making a cable to work could really be quite difficult. Modifying an Alfetta cable though may very well be the easiest way to go.
As for front brakes, I don't like the Holden idea at all! Ok, they probably do work quite well, but I just don't like floating calipers -sorry! I am thinking along the lines of installing Alfa 33 16V front suspension with the ventililated discs (get them cross drilled and slotted, about $50 per disc at a decent machine shop). I'll be fitting 15" Ronal A1 rims, so this will give me a bit more room for fitting bigger calipers. Two types I have in mind include Girling Volvo 240 4 pot calipers. These have been very commonly used on Alfetta's with fantastic results and can be obtained very cheaply from a lot of wreckers. Easy to rebuild as well. The other option is 4 pot calipers from an Alfa 156. I've heard this has been done, but I don't know if its true. I believe they are Brembos too! But which 156 models have 4 pot calipers? (I'm assuming only V6's and GTA's?). They will almost certainly require an adaptor to fit and quite expensive...
At one stage I nearly purchased a 2 piston Brembo brake set up from someone's racing Alfa Sprint. I chose not to because the discs were custom made = expensive to replace! Perhaps I should have though, the whole package was only $250Aus...
Anyone else have any further opinions/ideas?
Benjamin
(Adelaide, Au)
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03-19-2005, 10:10 PM
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Gentlemen...you are a mine if information...
...I've been stumped as to how to go about this !! (Brakes are really not my strong suite...then again, neither are Alfas.. ...
Pete...I'm looking into stealing a 33 handbrake setup so getting the cables to work should in theory be a little easier than modifying the Suds (which I'm assuming you did)...The spacers shouldn't be too much of a problem either...I know some interesting people with access to some very hi-tech (CAD/CAM) milling machines...Do you remember the width?
Bud...The Volvo conversion is one I've seen before and I'm pretty sure that's the way I'm going to go (along with Alfa 33 vented discs...Unfortunately I'll be running 14" wheels so the clearances may be a little tight...Can you let me know how you go with your project (PM me)
Cheers guys
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03-19-2005, 10:24 PM
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Mike J,
Will let you know how the brake conversion goes...
A tip for obtaining bigger rims for Alfa Romeos (in general). Some wheel refurbishing places will actually fit a bigger rim to the factory wheel insert. A friend of mine did this for his 105 series, upgraded from 14" to a 15" wheel. It looks stock, until you see the lower profile tyres! My brother plans to do with his series 1 'sud so that it looks original, to a point
Benjamin
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03-19-2005, 11:01 PM
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 Quote:
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Originally Posted by genius
Pete...I'm looking into stealing a 33 handbrake setup so getting the cables to work should in theory be a little easier than modifying the Suds (which I'm assuming you did)...The spacers shouldn't be too much of a problem either...I know some interesting people with access to some very hi-tech (CAD/CAM) milling machines...Do you remember the width?
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Pete
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03-20-2005, 12:36 AM
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Thank you Gentlemen !
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03-20-2005, 03:24 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by genius
...as for putting Holden bits on my Alfa !?!
Cheers |
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03-21-2005, 02:14 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by the_angel
I said the same thing when he wanted to do it to mine! He also wanted to change my hubs over to 100PCD so I could find better wheels easier... he suggested mitsubishi or something. Like I'd deface my alfa! |
As for Volvo 4 Spot Calipers, yes they are quite good, and we've used them on several "kit" cars (Clubmans). However the main problem with them is that they are quite heavy....lots of unsprung weight is not good!
Also another thing of note, is Volvo 4 Spots will bolt in where VL Turbo calipers have been...eg the Bolt spaceing of the calipers is exactly the same....
Other "good" brake setups/conversions I've seen (not always on Alfa's) are Nissan R33 Skyline GTS-T 4 Spots (very nice!) but alas those brakes command quite a bit of dosh.... 
I still like the idea of useing 100PCD hubs for the rears off a Ford laser...Oh well! I've tracked down a nice set of 16" 4 Stud 100PCD wheels......
(then again she'll probably never let me touch the car again...)
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03-21-2005, 02:07 PM
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Just a point ... Wilwood racing 4 pot calipers are not actually that expensive, so I assume are the competitors. Thus my point is make sure you are not paying too much for these production car parts, when you can get alloy racing calipers for only around $200NZ each ... if I remember right. Note this price was a few years ago.
Genius, I got the Wilwood calipers from a race shop in Auckland's Northshore. They mainly do sprintcar stuff ... but it is a good shop.
Pete
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03-21-2005, 03:08 PM
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Searching ebay revealed a stack of Wilwood calipers including a lot of new items:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=46093
Above link shows a 4 pot caliper for a 1.25" rotor, with 3.5" bolt pattern.
Any idea if this will fit the Alfa 33 16" struts with minimal modifications? What is the width of the 16V vented brake rotor?
I need an Alfa 16V front end suspension set up, anyone in South Australia want to help out? Are the shocks the same dimensions for all Alfasud's and 33's? I don't really want to have to find another set of Koni yellows for the front...
Benjamin |
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