06-18-2007, 05:43 AM
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GTAM in Historics?
I was looking at Cams' eligible cars for group Nc and it list the GTAM,what gives and could a GTAM spec replica be eligible and more importantly competitive with the v8's???
Hysteric.
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06-18-2007, 06:30 AM
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by Hysteric
I was looking at Cams' eligible cars for group Nc and it list the GTAM,what gives and could a GTAM spec replica be eligible and more importantly competitive with the v8's???
Hysteric.
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http://www.therealmountpanorama.com/...sults/1968.php
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Phil
1961 MGA 1600 Roadster, British Racing Green
1966 Giulia Sprint GT ,Argento
1970 1750 GTV s2, Verde Olivo Metallica (AR213)
2005 Holden Rodeo LT Crew Cab, Fox Fire Red
{Oo==V==oO}
Previously owned
1983 Ford Laser KB, Beige
1985 Volvo 360 GLT Dark Mettalic Blue
1970 GT Junior stepnose Resprayed Red, Giallo Ochre
1923 Amilcar Sports, rusty
I may only own two ALFAs now, but the handle stays as I am always chasing another one. 
Last edited by Threealfas; 06-18-2007 at 06:37 AM.
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06-18-2007, 07:00 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hysteric
I was looking at Cams' eligible cars for group Nc and it list the GTAM,what gives and could a GTAM spec replica be eligible and more importantly competitive with the v8's???
Hysteric.
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In any case, a customer of mine with a 2.0 105, was 3rd on the grid OUTRIGHT at the recent Winton Historic, NO V8s ahead (Chargers on 1 &2).
This great qualifying time was done by Spencer Rice on his first ever visit to this track, with a conventional single-plug 2.0, on carbs, with points! 1.5secs quicker than BDA Escorts and BMWs. (This has led to some accusations of a "big" engine, but I assure anyone who wants to look, I built it with a stock stroke and 84.75 bore; 1999cc)
Unfortunately this was short-lived, as a 350 Camaro starting behind him tried to out-brake him into the first turn and punched the tail-lights in under the back window......next time Spence.
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06-18-2007, 05:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vsharp
In any case, a customer of mine with a 2.0 105, was 3rd on the grid OUTRIGHT at the recent Winton Historic, NO V8s ahead (Chargers on 1 &2).
This great qualifying time was done by Spencer Rice on his first ever visit to this track, with a conventional single-plug 2.0, on carbs, with points! 1.5secs quicker than BDA Escorts and BMWs. (This has led to some accusations of a "big" engine, but I assure anyone who wants to look, I built it with a stock stroke and 84.75 bore; 1999cc)
Unfortunately this was short-lived, as a 350 Camaro starting behind him tried to out-brake him into the first turn and punched the tail-lights in under the back window......next time Spence.
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His car is a little weapon and beautifully prepared!
Much Kudos must go to how much you squeezed out of his car as it would have to be very near the quickest group NC Alfa running around Australia currently....
A Camaro out-braking an Alfa!!! What was that guy thinking!
I'd be very interested to hear a bit more about the build..... here's some pics of his car for those interested.
From memory he's running 48's that might even be bored out further, a lovely looking equal length exhaust....
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James
1968 series 1 1750 GTV (RHD)
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06-18-2007, 06:00 PM
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Hmmm ... rules must be different in Australia than New Zealand and everywhere else in the world because modern historic v8 cars are on another planet in performance elsewhere.
350 v8's are now producing 600-700hp and with modern brakes nothing of a mere 2000cc is going to touch them anywhere. In New Zealand I've been passed by Corvettes in my club race car sitting on 150mph like I was going backwards ... the thing must have been close to 190-200mph.
I know the owner and have looked at a few other cars in detail and they are running AP brakes, dry sump motors (that probably are alloy blocks and heads), in some cases modern 6 speed race gearboxes, etc.
Basically what I am saying is modern technology has solved their short comings (after all even a v8 Supercar dinosaur is fast) ... I wouldn't waste my money on a 2 ltr car expecting to win outright.
Pete
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'71 1750 Series 2 GTV: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?p=208078
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06-18-2007, 07:01 PM
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Well, Pete... thats the whole point of Group N.
Group N isnt some kind of improved production series, it's meant to be "as it was" when cars like the Camaro, GTV/GTA/GTAm, Giulia Super, Cooper S, Cortina GT/Lotus, Holden EH S4, Hillman Imp, Mustang were the local touring cars.
So they aren't allowed to produce 600-700hp, run dry sumps or have AP brakes and 6 speed gearboxes.
As a result of improved lubricants, better replacement parts, brake pad material and tire technology/regulations (a big one!!) etc etc, today's GrpN cars are undoubtedly faster around a track than their 60s/70s counterparts - but the advances are equal to all in the field, and surely a Cooper S or Alfa Romeo will make better use of improved tires than say a Mustang.
It is still possible to win Group N with a 2litre or under car - heck, Ive even seen 1275-1380cc Cooper Ss win outright and Cortinas and Alfas fare very well.
Consider at a place like Sandown however, with the massive front straight and long back straight and it's going to be harder to overcome the obvious power difference. At Oran Park or Philip Island however you're most certainly in with a chance.
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06-18-2007, 07:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Threealfas
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Values now? Monaro probably <$100K, GT <$50K, GTV.... <$25K.
Unbelievable.
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06-18-2007, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by py105
Well, Pete... thats the whole point of Group N
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Group N does not exist in NZ ... atleast in historics. They have way too many hotrods racing IMO.
Pete
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'71 1750 Series 2 GTV: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?p=208078
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06-19-2007, 04:36 AM
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A GTAm would be eligible for a few of the Historic classes depending on the spec:
http://www.camsmanual.com.au/historics.asp
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Beatle Bayly
Oztraya
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06-19-2007, 04:37 AM
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historics
As i have a stepnose already do i have to run a 1600 or can i go up to the 2L as i dont think a 1600 would be that competitve?
Hysteric.
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06-19-2007, 05:14 AM
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Ouch Spencer!!!
As it happened..
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06-19-2007, 05:17 AM
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The result....
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06-19-2007, 06:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by James1750
I never knew you built Spencers' Engine Vince....
His car is a little weapon and beautifully prepared!
Much Kudos must go to how much you squeezed out of his car as it would have to be very near the quickest group NC Alfa running around Australia currently....
A Camaro out-braking an Alfa!!! What was that guy thinking!
I'd be very interested to hear a bit more about the build..... here's some pics of his car for those interested.
From memory he's running 48's that might even be bored out further, a lovely looking equal length exhaust....
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Spencer is a good operator too. He built the basic car from of the shelf Pace parts for the gearbox, suspension and diff, and then set about optimising the set up with practice and testing and logging all the important stuff like tyre pressures, shocks settings etc to build up a picture of the car responses to setting changes. This really pays off. The result is not unexpected and has wiped the smug grins off a few 2liter class Ford and BMW drivers......some of the BMs are said to have $BIG$ motors from the US, and they don't see which way the Alfa went! So much for the "antiquated" Alfa engine....smell our pasta exhaust fumes I say!!!
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06-19-2007, 05:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vsharp
His 48's are only that, nothing more. The exhaust is mine (Pace)too,to match the requirements of the motor. The motor is 11.8 comp (Pace design) with 48mm intake valves, ported and gas-flowed by my methods, 12mm Pace cams and makes about 200 healthy HP at 7100rpm. This is it's 3rd season with nothing more than oil changes....just turn-key and drive. Reliable and it's quick too!
Spencer is a good operator too. He built the basic car from of the shelf Pace parts for the gearbox, suspension and diff, and then set about optimising the set up with practice and testing and logging all the important stuff like tyre pressures, shocks settings etc to build up a picture of the car responses to setting changes.
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A quick car it is.... I watched Spencer run in third at the Australian Muscle Car masters at Eastern Creek in 06 (progressive grid throughout the w/e)..... it was a very, very large field.
He placed around 10-12 cars better than the next nearest Alfa which says a fair bit about his set-up, driving skills and the motor you have built.....
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James
1968 series 1 1750 GTV (RHD)
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06-20-2007, 02:07 AM
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So the Camaro hit him in the right rear, what hit him in the left rear? I hear he got hit by a couple of cars after being turned around? Then kept going with the bumper dragging behind, being black flagged and not coming in? Sounds like a bloody good race for all involved.
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