Engine rebuild costs

[Damo105]

Hi People, I’m looking for opinions on what an engine rebuild should cost on a 105 2litre engine.

Engine rebuild will consist of:

• Complete head rebuild with performance improvements, including porting and polishing, enlarged inlet valves, hardened valve seats etc, and warm cams.
  
• Bottom end rebuild, with new high-comp pistons and liners, all new bearings and seals, new timing chains etc. Hopefully will be using the existing conrods, unless they’re stuffed too!
  
• Plus, rebuilding the Weber carbies, new carbie mounts, new clutch, and new engine mounts.

So I’m curious as to what people would expect to pay for an engine build such as this. Perhaps a few of you have had a similar engine built and can speak from experience.

Cheers

Damien

[Damo105]

Oh, plus the mechanic reckons we should balance the whole engine too. But I don't see the necessity, as this is to be a nice street engine rather than a race engine, and it won't have to sustain hours of high revving.

So I'd also appreciate opinions on whether or not to balance a street engine.

Ta!

[beatle_bayly]

A while back I studied everything on Michael Valant's excellent website. He showed a few rebuilds and commented that although he balanced everything, he rarely needed to because even the standard factory parts were so close to blueprint specs it was unnecessary. I've also heard this from others.

For a road car I'm not sure that the extra manhours involved, which is the costly portion of the build, would be worth it or even noticeable. I think the money would be better spent on balancing the drivetrain than the engine.

It is still possible to do an external balance after assembly.

[Threealfas]

Well I did my rebuild for about 4.5 K back in 2004 :

I did a big end bearing and as it turned out, that was because of a faulty oil pump. So I did the following.

I replaced:
The Piston/liners $900 (standard mondial stock), hot pistons are pricey
Rings
Valves/guides/shims/springs
Timing chain
Got the last new oil pump available at the time $450
Full gasket kit 80 quid
All hoses
Correct radiator shroud (car had Bimmer shroud fitted)
Main/big end/little end bearings
Water pump.
Engine mounts
Carb mounts
All ignition goodies.
All sorts of periferal stuff like new radiator over flow tank etc.
Oil filter, air filter, plugs etc ...

I rebuilt the Webbers ( new kit)

Had the head ported and polished.
Engine was balanced.
Crank was reground. Total engineering costs 1500 bucks

I didn't get the cranked nitrided as we were balancing the engine and mechanic didn't think it was necessary.

I didn't overhaul the starter motor which I later regretted as the solenoid packed it in and cost me $250 to get redone as carbns need to come off to get at motor.

Repainted the engine bay.

I saved money several ways.

1. The mechanic I used was my cousin's wife's uncle ( they are Italian) and by association that makes me family. So mates rates.

2. I helped throughout the rebuilt, whenever I could.

3. He let me pay the engineering works directly and thus did not add the usally 20% that workshops charge the end user for.

4. I was in charge of sourcing all the parts from suppliers. If I had of left this to him I would have been stuck with what his regular supplier would charge him. By letting me get the goodies instead left him to get on with the job and left me to get the best prices out there.

I suggest the best way to source parts is to make a list on an excel spread sheet down the vertical axis of every part required make space for the inevitiable extras that you have forgotten or did not know about until later when the engine is in bits (ie my oil pump). On the horizontal start to list the suppliers as you call them and get part quotes. In the cells list as much info as you can about a particular parts from a specific supplier ie price, brand, new or reco, does price include GST ? does price include shipping ? if not what does that cost ? Trade or AROCA discounts etc

After two days I had a good picture built up. Some parts were the same everywhere, so it was best for me to get those in Brisbane. A place in Adelaide was cheap for water pumps and pistons but not for oil pump and engine mounts. So I bought those there and got the oil pump from Sydney and the engine mounts along with the gasket kit from the UK.

Sometimes UK was far cheaper than OZ but be careful factor in shipping and duty which is attracted on some parts but not others. Anyway my spread sheet was colour coordinated and it ran like clock work when it came to ordering parts, most of which went straight to the workshop.

Also I saved a fourtune because my car got worked on in the down time, sure it took 3 months to do but I reckon I saved all up around 2k in the rebuild parts and labour.

Try the spreadsheet it will save you a packet and your sanity. Also I made all my calls from work and saved even more Hey all those STD calls add up

[Threealfas]

Oh I didn't bother to redo my clutch or Gbox as they had only recently been redone by the P.O. in 2002, and my syncro is really sweet. my pistons/liners were mondial from memory and bloody hard to get a hold of. Wasn't to keen to really hot up the engine at this point , after the body get's redone perhaps, perhaps perhaps........

[Threealfas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatle_bayly A while back I studied everything on Michael Valant's excellent website. He showed a few rebuilds and commented that although he balanced everything, he rarely needed to because even the standard factory parts were so close to blueprint specs it was unnecessary. I've also heard this from others. For a road car I'm not sure that the extra manhours involved, which is the costly portion of the build, would be worth it or even noticeable. I think the money would be better spent on balancing the drivetrain than the engine. It is still possible to do an external balance after assembly.

[cucinando]

I've just been quoted $6.5K (no names, no pack drill) to completely rebuild my 1300 or replace it with a rebuilt 1600. The exact details are on a piece of paper on a clipboard in a shop that I am getting in a few days, but I can tell you it is new pistons, rings and liners, grind the crankshaft, new bearings, full head work including new valves and guides (ports already polished on the 1300 (I was close, Derek!! )), overhaul carbies and new mounts etc. This includes (from memory) over $1,500 in labour!!! (needless to say the car is going into storage and I am reading workshop manuals...).

BUT I digress, hopefully that gives you something to go on with.

[Threealfas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cucinando I've just been quoted $6.5K (no names, no pack drill) to completely rebuild my 1300 or replace it with a rebuilt 1600. The exact details are on a piece of paper on a clipboard in a shop that I am getting in a few days, but I can tell you it is new pistons, rings and liners, grind the crankshaft, new bearings, full head work including new valves and guides (ports already polished on the 1300 (I was close, Derek!! )), overhaul carbies and new mounts etc. This includes (from memory) over $1,500 in labour!!! (needless to say the car is going into storage and I am reading workshop manuals...). BUT I digress, hopefully that gives you something to go on with.

[Damo105]

Thanks for the info guys.

Phil - funny you should mention the spreadsheet, as I started one the other day, exactly as you mention, with a list of parts, then prices from the various sources including any variations. I'll wait till I get the quote, but if I can save money sourcing parts myself then I will. Although the negative in all that, is that if a part I sourced failed, my mechanic wouldn't repair it under warranty (which is fair enough), so there is some in-built insurance by getting the mechanic to supply everything.

Gavin - the price you were quoted is in the ballpark of what I'm expecting! I know I could get the engine rebuilt for under $5k if I went for a totally stock engine, but I've asked the mechanic to aim for 160-165HP.

Damien

[jozza]

I had no idea an engine re-build was so expensive for these cars.
I think cucinando has the right idea in as far as trying to do as much of the work yourself.

[beatle_bayly]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Threealfas Beatle do you have the link to this website please.

[Threealfas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damo105 Thanks for the info guys. Phil - funny you should mention the spreadsheet, as I started one the other day, exactly as you mention, with a list of parts, then prices from the various sources including any variations. I'll wait till I get the quote, but if I can save money sourcing parts myself then I will. Although the negative in all that, is that if a part I sourced failed, my mechanic wouldn't repair it under warranty (which is fair enough), so there is some in-built insurance by getting the mechanic to supply everything. Gavin - the price you were quoted is in the ballpark of what I'm expecting! I know I could get the engine rebuilt for under $5k if I went for a totally stock engine, but I've asked the mechanic to aim for 160-165HP. Damien

[alfa2go]

Damien,

Since you have that 2000 Berlina now, I assume you are going to use the LSD. Have you looked into the cost for rebuilding that yet? I just got a 2000 LSD rear end today and was wondering costs are and who is best to do this.

[Threealfas]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfa2go Damien, Since you have that 2000 Berlina now, I assume you are going to use the LSD. Have you looked into the cost for rebuilding that yet? I just got a 2000 LSD rear end today and was wondering costs are and who is best to do this.