getting the BB letgitimised as a club?

[italiansedanman]

Here's what I am thinking,

Does anyone know if it might be possible to legitimise the Alfa BB as a proper club in Australia, so that we can take advantage of benefits like being able to register our cars on club historic registration etc, etc?

It seems as though the Aussie BBers are really starting to pool a lot of knowledge, many of us have met and it seems as though there could be the beginnings of a nice 'alternative' Alfa Romeo owner's club.

Initially anyway, I think we should get a bit of a presance established at events like next month's Auto Italia on the 25th of March. I guess we need to ask Simon Mestas if it would be okay to possibly make a small sticker or a shirt or something, I just think it would be interesting and enjoyable to publicise the BB off the web.

Any thoughts?

[Pat Braden]

Quote:

Originally Posted by italiansedanman Here's what I am thinking, Does anyone know if it might be possible to legitimise the Alfa BB as a proper club in Australia, so that we can take advantage of benefits like being able to register our cars on club historic registration etc, etc? It seems as though the Aussie BBers are really starting to pool a lot of knowledge, many of us have met and it seems as though there could be the beginnings of a nice 'alternative' Alfa Romeo owner's club. Initially anyway, I think we should get a bit of a presance established at events like next month's Auto Italia on the 25th of March. I guess we need to ask Simon Mestas if it would be okay to possibly make a small sticker or a shirt or something, I just think it would be interesting and enjoyable to publicise the BB off the web. Any thoughts?

[italiansedanman]

Cheryl, what you say is absolutely true and I did consider it before I wrote the first instalment of the thread.

My main motivation though, is that I believe the best beggining to any organisation is the gathering of people with common minds and passions, and in the case of the Alfa BB, there are many individuals who would not potentially join the AROCA because their social situation or preferances are not entirely in line with those of the club. If you catch my drift.

Then ofcourse, The Alfa BB may end up as just another alternative club that serves no apparent purpose as opposed to the traditional Alfa Romeo Owner's club.

But again, in the case of Alfa Romeo as a pursuit and an interest; there are such a broad range of models with a broader range of appeals and an even BROADER range of VALUES, that it takes the marque into demographic and social divisions that many other marques couldn't dream of.

I try very hard not to generalise, but if one looks at a marque like Ferrari, MG, Healey, Porsche to a certain extent, you can understand how the owners of these cars all belong to a relatively more narrow socio-economic group. Here in the Alfa Romeo camp, there are cars that you can buy for a few hundred dollars and there are others that you can buy for a few million. Sure, some were built at Milan, some in Naples. Some have 12 cylinders, some eight, six and most have four. Some drive the front wheels and most drive the rear - but they are all Alfa Romeos, and many of them contribute to the history of the automobile in no small way. The group of people who own them are as diverse as the cars, their intent and their value, and this was my motivation in the thought that there might be room for an 'alternative' Alfa Romeo owner's club.

I would like to hear the opinion of any others on this matter. Certainly, I dont intend to run away and start some alternative club/site or other pursuit as I really enjoy being part of this forum and really being part of the phenomenal pool of knowledge that exists here, but I think that there is some merit in giving my ideas some thought.

[py105]

Ben - I've often thought along similar lines mate.

I for one would love a '60-'80 club, because I reckon that was the best period of motoring. Only problem is that it would start filling up with MGBs and TRs before you knew it But... maybe an italian '60-'80 club... Hmmm..

I know that a lot of people are forgoeing formal memberships anymore because they really aren't using a club to it's full extent. I mean, it used to be (back in the 80s or 90s) that you would write into a car club for a particular marque as your best way of getting info or help about a particular car. Needless to say in 2007 I'd log on to the BB long before sending a letter to my local club. The thing for me is that apart from perhaps the annual show and an early morning run here or there I'm not really that interested in club activities.

Anyway now im just rambling, back to your ideas ben.


I love the idea of an alternative club, based more on a knowledge share and decent social interaction BASED AROUND OUR CARS. Sorry, but I dont really want to spend saturday night having dinner with you just because we're all in some club. I want to talk cars, preferably red italian ones with twin cams.

I don't know how official you'd need to make it though, I mean for Club/Historic reg it would have to be official but then it's different for every state as well so, just another bureaucratic hoop to jump through.

Secondly, i don't know how much the AlfaBB needs to do with it. I mean, I'd love to have people with Lancias and Fiats and Masers and Fezzas and all sorts of things too, so perhaps calling it an AlfaBB offshoot kinda limits the possibilities somewhat.

Anyway, i think the idea has a lot of merit. Tasmania have the cool "Club Motori Italia" which has some really interesting cars in it and they seem to do some cool stuff. I'd love to see more Lancias out... maybe because I really want to scunge a drive in a Fulvia sometime but that's beside the point

It's late, I should stop talking now.

[Pat Braden]

Certainly, other opinions and views should be considered and are welcome; this is not my club and it's not your club, it belongs to everyone, whether they choose to actively participate or not for whatever reason. All I'm saying is that wherever there are personalities involved there are going to be differences of opinion, approaches, goals, and a sundry of other miscellaneous items involved, including whether the person you're speaking to got up on the wrong side of the bed that morning. In the many years I've been involved with the club, I've seen many that have begun as pretty petty, small instances and escalated or exploded into nasty, all out name-calling, diversive events as a result. I'm not against what you're proposing or trying to do, my warning was to be cautious and think everything through before a failed whatever proposal ends up in your lap or takes others down with you that punishes the group as a whole.

In addition to the ARA/AROC incident, look at what the Alfa Owner has become from what it was in the past. Sure Pat's Note Brevi is gone along with the other special articles he wrote, but beyond that do you see the old standby contributors that always filled the magazine. No, and there's a big reason why, one Board member, in particular, caused so much dissension in the ranks with his demand that anyone that contributed to The Owner would give up his/her intellectual property right to the item and turn copyright over to The Owner. In short, not only could the article or art work be used in that issue of The Owner, but also on the website and anywhere else they chose to use it, which also precluded its use by the author or artist in any other publication without violating copyright. Did they want to pay for this demand? No. As a result, you saw a mass protest with refusals to comply and withholding of monthly articles and contributions. The reason, The Owner was getting the benefit of professional writers and professional artists, many of them not paid or paid very little and the club decided they wanted a bigger chunk of the pie. After a lot of yelling, screaming, and back and forth the Board member was required to withdraw his demand. However, only a couple returned to the fold, others are still bitter and withholding contributions as well as not taking an active part in the club any longer. Others have left for various other reasons and are occassionally approached to return, but for the most part have declined. So the knowledge base has been severely eroded by this action and several others. New people are stepping up to answer questions and figure things out, just look at the bb; but think what it could be with both the newer contributors and the ones that have left. There is a big void and a horrible loss; some of it very much preventable.

There are so many other instances or examples that I could cite over the years, including the clubs interaction with Alfa Romeo, ARI, Ardona, etc. but the purpose was to illustrate that what appears to be a weak link or a non-caring entity could come back to bite and with such force that you will know it and find yourself embroiled in something that you never intended. What started and appeared as a totally innocent proposal or request and exploded into something else.

As far as the wide spectrum of Alfa ownership, I totally agree with you. There is not the general overall snobbery of the other car clubs that you mentioned. However, there is still strata or layering involved in the ownership base, directly tied to economic means, rarer vehicles owned, "clicks," if you will, etc. If you don't recognize that you're blind. Additionally, there is the group of "purists" that feel only certain Alfas to a prescribed "mark," meaning year or model are "true" Alfas. It just depends on the person involved whether they make you aware of it and their feelings.

I'll apologize up front if this appears to be an attempt to discourage you in your pursuit. It is not, just an attempt to enlighten you about the many unforeseen pitfalls/obstacles involved and how others could ultimately be drawn in with other interests to defend for which you will have to have answers or solutions.

Good luck.

[italiansedanman]

As I stated previously, I dont really have any intent to start anything new, different or otherwise. I am thinking conceptually but, what Pete says is interesting and quite honestly he hit "my" nail right on the head. That is, just because we drive the same type of car, doesn't mean that I want ot have dinner with you and dress up on a Saturday night.

Politics like you describe Cheryl, are a consequence of poor management. Same as in business only in a club it is more difficult to adjudicate because nobody is being paid for what they contribute to the organisation. There's also no cut and dried method for establishing what someone knows, or how great their credentials are for maintaining any particullar task within the club because after all, what clubs are, are groups of enthusiasts. There's no university degree for "Italian Cars", is there?

Pursuits of prestige are un-avoidable whenever people get together, and especially where symbols of prestige are involved. A multi-marque club would go some way to diffusing that effect. A Fiat 128 owner is not going to have pretentions to upstaging the owner of a Ferrari Dino, and that wont be the point anyway.

For the love of the cars, and to pool the knowledge. It is the way forward, and the more I think about it the beauty of the Alfa BB is that it exists electronically and does not set out to enhanse our social lives, or to serve as some sort of method to convey how rich and successful we are.

Great concept, great excecution.

[py105]

Yeah, Alfa is part of my life, not MY life. I dont really need a fulltime addition to my already hectic existence

Oh and ben, i'll still have dinner with you sometime mate

[italiansedanman]

Hehe, lets make it the 24th of March. How are your plans travelling?

[Pat Braden]

Quote:

Originally Posted by italiansedanman For the love of the cars, and to pool the knowledge. It is the way forward, and the more I think about it the beauty of the Alfa BB is that it exists electronically and does not set out to enhanse our social lives, or to serve as some sort of method to convey how rich and successful we are.

[italiansedanman]

By discussing a 'social' life, I am not considering that portion of one's life which exists on-line.

Clearly Cheryl you're right, as through the BB i've met three members in the flesh, and will see them all again at events and the like. Same for prestige within the BB, as yes, I agree the signature seems to serve as a little demonstration of what you've got and had. Bit like showing up at a club meeting in my Dino...

The only difference the way I see it is that to be a part of this BB, and go so far as to meet other members in the flesh it has to be totally voluntary, and there is no obligation to attend any meetings or be official in any way. There are not really going to be any instances where we see situations like you've described Cheryl, I think the worst here will be between passionate people with different opinions.

[Pat Braden]

Quote:

Originally Posted by italiansedanman The only difference the way I see it is that to be a part of this BB, and go so far as to meet other members in the flesh it has to be totally voluntary, and there is no obligation to attend any meetings or be official in any way. There are not really going to be any instances where we see situations like you've described Cheryl, I think the worst here will be between passionate people with different opinions.

[italiansedanman]

Cheryl, I am not intending to wake a sleeping GIANT!!

how many times more would you like me to write "I have no intentions of heading off and establishing another club or forum"? It was just an idea, and I paid you on your comments regarding politics and possible hazards and traps.

Part of the reason that I started the thread, was to raise a few ideas and thoughts, and a bit of discussion. Currently, if I wanted to register a car in Australia on historic registration I would need to either join the Alfa Romeo club of Queensland OR one of the non-marque specific clubs in the region that I live. Neither of the organisations available to me are suitable to my specific interests and I think its a bit one-sided to join a club ONLY to reap the rewards and the benfits. And that was my motivation for suggesting how nice in theory it would be if the Alfa BB was a club that offered the same sort of perks.

Only the three of us have participated and I have responded to what you've said, despite it being cryptic and laced with specific examples of situations that you believe I should watch out for.

I am not alone on this board as an individual who has NEVER belonged to the AROC because of the crap that tends to go on within it.

In message #6 in this thread I said "for the love of the cars and to pool the knowledge", and that is what I believe in.

[vsharp]

Hi Ben & Pete,
Personally I would keep up exactly what we have been doing on the BB so far, meeting and talking close and far with people of varied and similar interests and leave the official club type stuff to AROCA. BB is such a melting pot of cars, countries, ideas, opinions, experiences, information and pictures.....it's one of the few good reasons to sit in front of a computer.
Keep it simple, keep it casual.
Getting a club "official" for historic registrations etc is what AROCA and others provide. Incorporations Act, taxation/gst reporting, CAMS affiliation, negotiating agreements with Alfa's (Ateco here) legal reps to be able to use the name, liability/risk cover for organized events.........it's all hard work. I've seen it all over the years as an AROCA member and I appreciate all the efforts put in to establish and maintain an on-going club ( although I've never been on committee!)
I like that I can drop-in to the BB community at a moments notice and find something of interest, but I also like to be able use the advantages that AROCA offers. Like historic reg. on my cars! Also, the fact that people organize things for me to take part in if I choose. Morning runs (yes, in cars!), track days - this weekend AROCA has Winton raceway exclusively for 2 days for Junior driver training and racecraft. Next weekend AROCA members from 6 states will get together at Phillip Island Historics, maybe 20 or more Alfas running. And we get to a sit down in comfort in the corporate lounge for lunch if we choose, because we are an affiliated club and someone from the AROCA has taken the time to arrange it!
There is more to Alfas than the AROCA or BB, I like a bit of both, each for what it is able to offer in different ways.
Cheers, Vin.