10-16-2008, 12:03 PM
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Join Date: Oct 2008
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exit track signal
Hey guys,
At the 10-12-08 Race at WSIR I had an issue with at least one person pointing to the left to indicate that they are pitting.
I confused it for a point by and got a surprise!
Do we have a standard way of signaling intention to pit, like the fist in the air like many other organizations?
It might be worth a brief mention in the drivers meeting at a place like WSIR...
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10-16-2008, 12:37 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Ventura, CA
Posts: 2,217
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by rob burgoon
Hey guys,
At the 10-12-08 Race at WSIR I had an issue with at least one person pointing to the left to indicate that they are pitting.
I confused it for a point by and got a surprise!
Do we have a standard way of signaling intention to pit, like the fist in the air like many other organizations?
It might be worth a brief mention in the drivers meeting at a place like WSIR...
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But, to bring up another issue, I noticed at this event a couple of guy in the race group waring Class M (Motorcycle) helmets (you can tell from the design of the chin guard and the eye opening). I thought these were only allowed in the Intro group?
__________________
Gifford
'72 Super, '67 GTV --> SOLD
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10-16-2008, 03:07 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dexter, Michigan USA
Posts: 3,371
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AROSC Time Trial / Race Safety Issues
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrclem
As one of the co-founders of the AROSC on-track program, and an author of the original National Competition Code, let me chime in...
There was a HUGE argument back in the day over wether or not to require roll bars in open cars... we insisted that they be required in our AROSC code, and Tom Sutter & I spent a 15 hour long National BOD meeting defending that position... we won. It is likely that that victory has saved several lives in the ensuing 35 ± years.
A 5~6-point harness can be installed without ANY mods to most cars... SNAP OUT OF IT!!! This is a NO BRAINER!
If you are the "Responsible Party" in organizing any event you don't want to be the one making that phone call to the next of kin explaining that your loose rules (made in the name of attracting more entrants) have cost a life. THIS IS A STUPID DEBATE!!!
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AROSC, or a specific portion of it, is unhappy with AROC rules and how they dictate that track events must be run based on the insurance carrier that they have selected as a non-profit corporation that umbrellas the chapters.
I don't know the answers and am not about to try and solve them, but I see more splits and disagreements in the future over the same issues that have not been satisfactorily resolved or addressed.
Remember it takes members to race; without members to race rules aren't important, so I would suggest trying to seek resolution to the issues so that you do have members to race, both on a local and national level.
__________________
Cheryl
(Not an authority nor SME
on anything, just PATSYF)
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10-17-2008, 10:47 AM
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vista, CA
Posts: 835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rob burgoon
Hey guys,
At the 10-12-08 Race at WSIR I had an issue with at least one person pointing to the left to indicate that they are pitting.
I confused it for a point by and got a surprise!
Do we have a standard way of signaling intention to pit, like the fist in the air like many other organizations?
It might be worth a brief mention in the drivers meeting at a place like WSIR...
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In our drivers meetings we try to make it very clear that it is the responsibility of the overtaking driver to make a clean, safe pass. In the situation you describe, especially in race group where drivers are dealing with arm restraints and/or window nets, it's easy to visualize how an arm out the window might be confusing and it's exactly this kind of confusing situation we are trying to avoid. So, when you run with AROSC, whether a driver in front of you provides no hand signal, a raised finger or a clenched fist, your responsibility is the same, as an overtaking driver, you must make a clean, safe pass. If you're not sure you can do that, you should wait until you can.
As far as T9 at WSIR goes, I'd say the chances are very good that a driver intends to pit if he/she has an arm out the window in any part of the turn. T9 is an intense turn where drivers usually keep both hands on the wheel if they are doing anything other than slowing to get into the pits. Still, there's no guarantee of this so it's important to drive accordingly.
__________________
Bruce Colby
Competition Director, AROSC
'65 Sprint GT (TS race)
'69 1750 GTV (TS street)
'71 Jr. Z (special occasions)
'89 E30 (the dark side)
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'69 1750 Spider (sold  )
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10-17-2008, 12:01 PM
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vista, CA
Posts: 835
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Braden
And this, dispute over roll bars and safety, is exactly why ARA withdrew and formed their own organization among other things. Nothing has changed over 20 years, the same discussions, same fights, same issues, etc.
AROSC, or a specific portion of it, is unhappy with AROC rules and how they dictate that track events must be run based on the insurance carrier that they have selected as a non-profit corporation that umbrellas the chapters.
I don't know the answers and am not about to try and solve them, but I see more splits and disagreements in the future over the same issues that have not been satisfactorily resolved or addressed.
Remember it takes members to race; without members to race rules aren't important, so I would suggest trying to seek resolution to the issues so that you do have members to race, both on a local and national level.
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First, I'm not sure why you think AROSC is unhappy with AROC rules. We, AROSC, run our track events without any interference from AROC and without being subjected to any constraints by the AROC insurance carrier. We run our track events according to our own rules and we independently procure insurance to cover those events. Consequently, there is no reason for us to have a problem with AROC rules.
Second, this thread was initiated for the sole purpose of addressing AROSC Time Trial and Race Safety issues. This is a very important topic and I think it is reasonable to expect people to post here accordingly. I appreciate your interest in safety but if you want to discuss club politics, this thread would be better served if you would find in a more appropriate thread for that discussion. If you can't find one that fits your needs, you can always start one yourself.
__________________
Bruce Colby
Competition Director, AROSC
'65 Sprint GT (TS race)
'69 1750 GTV (TS street)
'71 Jr. Z (special occasions)
'89 E30 (the dark side)
----------------------------
'69 1750 Spider (sold )
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10-19-2008, 10:22 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dexter, Michigan USA
Posts: 3,371
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AROSC Time Trial/Race Safety Issues
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Colby
I have two comments:
First, I'm not sure why you think AROSC is unhappy with AROC rules. We, AROSC, run our track events without any interference from AROC and without being subjected to any constraints by the AROC insurance carrier. We run our track events according to our own rules and we independently procure insurance to cover those events. Consequently, there is no reason for us to have a problem with AROC rules.
Second, this thread was initiated for the sole purpose of addressing AROSC Time Trial and Race Safety issues. This is a very important topic and I think it is reasonable to expect people to post here accordingly. I appreciate your interest in safety but if you want to discuss club politics, this thread would be better served if you would find in a more appropriate thread for that discussion. If you can't find one that fits your needs, you can always start one yourself.
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One, I responded to a post from one of your illustrious racers who was instrumental in getting people interested in the 1st ever GTA open-wheel racing in Chicago at the convention this year, and then himself withdrew. But beyond that his post very clearly made reference to the fight with AROC at the board of directors meetings that he and Tom Suter participated in over the roll bar issue. Is that not a safety issue as is the 5-point harness requirement, the way cars are flagged to pit etc.? He opened the topic, all I did was expand on it and furnish additional information in that regard as well as the observation that nothing has changed over the years....same arguments.
Being independent leads to creativity, generally; but when it comes to the same points that can't be satisfactorily resolved over time, maybe the solution is using one set of specified rules that everyone follows, mandated by the National organization. It's a choice of being a team player or not.
Secondly, as recent as early this year some of your local membership were complaining about the amount of dues they pay to AROC without any real benefit except the measly dues split they receive since they do not use the major advertised benefit of dues: the insurance benefit, even though they are an active racing chapter.
My suggestion, while it may have alluded you, was to try and figure out what doesn't work for you with AROC National insurance, cost, coverage, etc. In other words, why are you forced to purchase your own insurance coverage? I'm pretty sure AROC has no clue what they're doing wrong or why you're forced to purchase your own. My guess, is that you're racing in a way that AROC doesn't cover. Did it ever occur to you, that solving this problem might also benefit other chapters that find themselves in your same situation and would like to do things better.
Brian Shorey has indicated previously that he would be willing to talk to anyone about why you can't use their insurance or choose not to.....with safety being the primary priority and concern.
__________________
Cheryl
(Not an authority nor SME
on anything, just PATSYF)
Last edited by Pat Braden; 10-19-2008 at 10:35 AM.
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