AROC Convention Planner's Thread - Page 12 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

  #166 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2008, 10:37 AM
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Just as a clarification, having the BOD meeting on a day where nothing else conflicts is intended to ensure that nothing gets in the way of conducting the business of the club. Allowing the BOD members to participate in all the events without a time conflict is a nice side benefit, but not the driving reason (and yes, we all pay our own way just like anyone else). Not only does this allow the BOD to be present, but it allow the membership at large to participate in the meeting if they want to and not have to choose between a meeting or a "fun" event.

See you all next week.

Arno Leskinen
AROC-USA National Concours Chair
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  #167 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2008, 10:45 AM
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AROC Convention Planner's Thread

I wondered if Enrique had fallen off a cliff somewhere.....

Anyway, I disagree with Enrique's statement that you would have to drag people in if they're not willing to come to the current 8 hour board meeting. I think the town meeting format offers some opportunities that are not available in the present board meeting configuration and that is that it is agenda driven. The board meeting does not allow off-agenda items to be addressed and the agenda items have to be submitted some time before the annual convention.

I'm not sure that I want two meetings, but certainly an open, non-agenda driven meeting, imo, would draw people that felt they could speak their minds and not be confined by agenda titles or trying to make what they have to say fit an agenda topic.

If the board could consolidate its agenda items into a half day, say the afternoon half, which would allow for run-over into the evening hours, then maybe the first half of the day could be used for a town meeting format, and it would allow those items to be discussed by the board, if merited, where the reverse would not work as well. Granted, it would mean that the agenda would have to be more flexible and allow items to be added at the last minute, if needed for the afternoon based on the morning discussion.

I think one of the biggest problems with attendance at the board meeting is the positioning in the convention week. Only long time, die-hard members are the ones you see making the time to come in early for it. So while Enrique, may feel in the minority about the Concours starting off the convention, I can see the advantage of getting more Alfisti to the convention earlier, which should increase the draw for the board meeting attendance. While I don't participate in the concours, never have, and never will, because I was brought up that Alfas are to be loved, driven, and enjoyed; not garaged or treated as trailer queens, I can certainly see the advantage to people in Enrique's position who combine the love and enjoyment of every day driving with the concours. It is a burden, those people miss much of the convention since they spend most of their time washing, rewashing, waxing etc. their cars after each use where the concours is currently positioned in the schedule. It is also true unless you know the cars, by the time the awards are announced, they're gone as far as viewing them.

Another alternative would be to use the town meeting in place of what some of us consider offensive at the banquet, making a joke out of a very serious matter, a legitimate non-profit organization conducting business as a joke. This still creates a problem of an additional meeting unless it is merged or positioned just before the banquet starts; this would also solve the problem of a quorum being present for what is usually conducted during the banquet. Yes, there would have to be some provision or tracking for those who wish to attend the meeting, but do not have banquet tickets.
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  #168 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2008, 12:44 PM
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Just to put the concours issue in perspective, current registration figures for the Chicago convention are listed below:

Concours: 110
Time trial: 51
Autocross: Not mine to reveal, but I know it's relatively low at this time.

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Originally Posted by Pat Braden View Post
......... While I don't participate in the concours, never have, and never will, because I was brought up that Alfas are to be loved, driven, and enjoyed; not garaged or treated as trailer queens.......
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  #169 (permalink)  
Old 06-09-2008, 01:04 PM
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Just to put the concours issue in perspective, current registration figures for the Chicago convention are listed below:

Concours: 110
Time trial: 51
Autocross: Not mine to reveal, but I know it's relatively low at this time.
George,

I'm not clear on your point in reference to perspective. Do you think moving the concours to the beginning of the convention instead of the end would diminish the attendance? Or that it would not bring in more members who would be willing to attend the board meeting? That they would simply come early for the concours and forgo the board meeting anyway, no matter what the format: town hall, agenda driven, or a combination?

My statement about "trailer queens" etc. was in reference to Enrique separating out in two separate poll questions those who participate in the concours and those who don't as far as responses. My statement was an indication that I was of the latter category: always have been and always will be.

The concours is lovely and beautiful to attend and enjoy; but not my cup of tea as far as all the preparation necessary to make and keep a car presentable. My Alfas have been every day drivers with kids, that should put the concours in perspective from my point of view.
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  #170 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2008, 06:33 AM
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My intent was just to illustrate the concours appears to be the most popular convention activity where a car is entered, and therefore deserving of a time slot where most owners will be present. BTW I entered my red spider in the concours not as a trophy contender, but for the enjoyment of mingling with other owners and their cars.

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Originally Posted by Pat Braden View Post
George,

I'm not clear on your point in reference to perspective. Do you think moving the concours to the beginning of the convention instead of the end would diminish the attendance? Or that it would not bring in more members who would be willing to attend the board meeting? That they would simply come early for the concours and forgo the board meeting anyway, no matter what the format: town hall, agenda driven, or a combination?

My statement about "trailer queens" etc. was in reference to Enrique separating out in two separate poll questions those who participate in the concours and those who don't as far as responses. My statement was an indication that I was of the latter category: always have been and always will be.

The concours is lovely and beautiful to attend and enjoy; but not my cup of tea as far as all the preparation necessary to make and keep a car presentable. My Alfas have been every day drivers with kids, that should put the concours in perspective from my point of view.
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1976 Spider (Dedicated Autocrosser, "SPICA, No Carbs")
1991 Spider Veloce (Retirement cruiser)
Scuderia Non Originale
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  #171 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2008, 07:05 AM
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My belief is that the Concorso is probably the one big event which is most 'accessible' and attractive to the largest number of people, including the public (and YES! I believe they NEED to be included). Regarding the benefits of holding it at the beginning of a convention, that scheduling could only work if the convention started on a weekend, with the Concorso being held on the Saturday for example (with a Friday BOD meeting perhaps).

Oh, and by the way...AROC USA members (limiting it a bit because the world has an unlimited variety of Alfisti) come in many flavors. Some are Autocrossers and Time Trialers...and even vintage racers. Others are 'trailer-queen' shiny car types, while others are rallyists and some come to a convention just to meet friends, look at Alfas and hang out. There are daily-use drivers, die-hard Giulietta types, fans of the 105 series only...V-6 enthusiasts...the list goes on and on. ALL of these folks are Alfa Romeo fans (or supportive family of those fans)...and they ALL deserve a GREAT convention.
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  #172 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2008, 08:45 AM
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Gordy, Alex, LM:
Thanks for the welcome. It is really good to be back, and I very much looking forward to next week.

Cheryl:
Don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll send you an e-mail...


OK, back on topic...

I am in favor of anything that will increase participation, but just don't think that a meeting without an agenda will work. Perhaps it is my corporate background, but in such an environment it is a big no-no to call a meeting without an agenda. And for good reason, as this is based on what happens in meetings without agendas. Let me explain by describing what I visualize would have happen at the convention, if we followed such a proposed format:
A group of people would go into a room, and everyone would being silent.
After several minutes past the announced starting time whoever is trying to moderate this would open the floor for discussion. People will look at each other, and no one will speak. Then the moderator will remind everyone that it's an open meeting. People will suggest that whoever called the meeting should raise a topic. By this time, much of the meeting time will have been wasted. Finally, one of the people who attends the BoD meeting will raise a topic that had already been under discussion, and that's what will be the topic for the rest of the meeting. After the meeting is over, the club officers will be criticized for calling such a useless meeting and for being disorganized, and not even having a topic prepared for discussion!

My bottom line: if people won't communicate via phone or e-mail, nor will they approach any club officer at a convention, then I don't see how they will speak up when they are in a room full of people... If this no-agenda format is really what people want, then I would expect that at least some members (even just a few, but at least more than one) would ask the club for such a meeting. Of course, mine is just one point of view and in no way should my comment be taken in a negative way. As one who is interested in the club, I would attend a no-agenda meeting, and do my best to try and have a good discussion on any topic.

Regarding the Concours - the latest stats that Carm published say that there are 120 entries!

Best regards,
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  #173 (permalink)  
Old 06-10-2008, 07:58 PM
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AROC Convention Planner's Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunige View Post
Gordy, Alex, LM:
Thanks for the welcome. It is really good to be back, and I very much looking forward to next week.

Cheryl:
Don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll send you an e-mail...


OK, back on topic...

I am in favor of anything that will increase participation, but just don't think that a meeting without an agenda will work. Perhaps it is my corporate background, but in such an environment it is a big no-no to call a meeting without an agenda. And for good reason, as this is based on what happens in meetings without agendas. Let me explain by describing what I visualize would have happen at the convention, if we followed such a proposed format:
A group of people would go into a room, and everyone would being silent.
After several minutes past the announced starting time whoever is trying to moderate this would open the floor for discussion. People will look at each other, and no one will speak. Then the moderator will remind everyone that it's an open meeting. People will suggest that whoever called the meeting should raise a topic. By this time, much of the meeting time will have been wasted. Finally, one of the people who attends the BoD meeting will raise a topic that had already been under discussion, and that's what will be the topic for the rest of the meeting. After the meeting is over, the club officers will be criticized for calling such a useless meeting and for being disorganized, and not even having a topic prepared for discussion!

My bottom line: if people won't communicate via phone or e-mail, nor will they approach any club officer at a convention, then I don't see how they will speak up when they are in a room full of people... If this no-agenda format is really what people want, then I would expect that at least some members (even just a few, but at least more than one) would ask the club for such a meeting. Of course, mine is just one point of view and in no way should my comment be taken in a negative way. As one who is interested in the club, I would attend a no-agenda meeting, and do my best to try and have a good discussion on any topic.

Regarding the Concours - the latest stats that Carm published say that there are 120 entries!

Best regards,
Enrique,

I totally understand your scenario as presented --- and I do know that non-agendaed town hall meetings work, or are we to believe that all the presidential town hall meetings are conducted by planted personnel and planted questions? I do know that they are screened but I don't believe that the candidates plant the questions.

We use non-agendaed meetings where I work, they're called bs sessions; and many times we get more accomplished in them than in an agendaed meeting, because people are not intimidated and are able to clear the air with things that are bothering them that otherwise would have to be submitted as agenda items and are not. It really lets people let loose without fear of repercussion.

I was hopeful with Brewster's suggestion of this format that those that are afraid, for whatever reason, to pick up the phone or send an e-mail, would see this as movement on the board's part that they wanted to hear from the general members that are put-off by a strictly run agendaed meeting and would feel more at ease and come forward in this more casual, friendly, approach. For many just having to walk up to the microphone in a structured meeting knowing that every word they utter is going to be recorded for posterity is intimidating. For me, it's just a matter of staying on my feet and not taking expensive equipment down with me.

Just my .02.
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Last edited by Pat Braden; 06-10-2008 at 08:08 PM.
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  #174 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 01:56 PM
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Inasmuch as the "Annual Meeting" is a joke and no business is actually transacted at it, and all the club's business is conducted at the Board meeting, it seems to me that the fiction should be abolished and the Board meeting should be called what it really is: the annual meeting of the club. I doubt that would entail much change at all in practice.
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  #175 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 02:28 PM
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Inasmuch as the "Annual Meeting" is a joke and no business is actually transacted at it, and all the club's business is conducted at the Board meeting, it seems to me that the fiction should be abolished and the Board meeting should be called what it really is: the annual meeting of the club. I doubt that would entail much change at all in practice.
I agree, wholeheartedly, with abolishing the joke; however, I think the reason that it is done that way, although, not positive by any means, is that a quorum of the general membership cannot be obtained at the board meeting and therefore the business is transacted at the board meeting and the required annual meeting becomes a joke at the banquet where the quorum is present and simply approves what has already been done earlier. Some how the quorum and the board meeting, in regard to general membership would have to be brought together and solved to eliminate the way it is currently done. I think that's why there are currently two separate transactions if I understand how it's been done over the years. It hasn't just been perpetuating a lame joke, but instead the way to meet the "actual" requirements.

I'm sure if I'm incorrect, that one of the board members will correct me: Brewster, Brian, Arno, past board members: Dave, Eric etc.
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  #176 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 02:38 PM
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An Annual General Meeting (AGM) is required of all corporations, non-profits included, regardless of size. 500 members in a room (less if you only count banquet attendees) out of 4000 do not constitute a quorum, but it does fulfill the requirements of an AGM. What the BoD does to comply is common practice. Really too long to go into here...

Best regards,
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  #177 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 08:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunige View Post
An Annual General Meeting (AGM) is required of all corporations, non-profits included, regardless of size. 500 members in a room (less if you only count banquet attendees) out of 4000 do not constitute a quorum, but it does fulfill the requirements of an AGM. What the BoD does to comply is common practice. Really too long to go into here...

Best regards,
The BoD meeting is open to all members, I don't see why it doesn't suffice. I think the banquet joke was probably funny 25 years ago, for me it got old after the first couple of conventions.

My .02,

bs
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  #178 (permalink)  
Old 06-11-2008, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunige
An Annual General Meeting (AGM) is required of all corporations, non-profits included, regardless of size. 500 members in a room (less if you only count banquet attendees) out of 4000 do not constitute a quorum, but it does fulfill the requirements of an AGM. What the BoD does to comply is common practice. Really too long to go into here...
While this is Connecticut law, I have Illinois law in this regard also somewhere when I was researching non-profits, by-laws, meetings, requirements etc. This addresses what is considered a quorum at each meeting: annual and board of directors.

ARTICLE # 7 VOTING QUORUM
All members in good standing shall have an equal vote. The voting quorum at Board of Directors' meetings shall be a majority of those present. At the annual meeting, the voting quorum shall be a majority of those present.

Here is the link to the State of Illinois Incorporation Requirements for Non-Profit Organizations:

805 ILCS 105/ General Not For Profit Corporation Act of 1986.


Quote:
Originally Posted by bshorey View Post
The BoD meeting is open to all members, I don't see why it doesn't suffice. I think the banquet joke was probably funny 25 years ago, for me it got old after the first couple of conventions.

My .02,

bs
You haven't listened to it nearly as long as I and some others have. But I think as Enrique stated there are two separate required provisions of incorporated status that have to be addressed by the corporation, which includes non-profits: an annual meeting and, not or, a board of directors meeting. We won't go any further than that as far as provisions, except to say that there are others, among them, annual reports and adequate disclosure standards.

Attached is a synopsis, cut and paste, of annual meeting provision rules, voting procedures, and penalties.
Attached Files
File Type: doc Incorporation non profit annual meeting rules.doc (26.5 KB, 75 views)
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Last edited by Pat Braden; 06-11-2008 at 11:30 PM.
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  #179 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2008, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Braden View Post
You haven't listened to it nearly as long as I and some others have. But I think as Enrique stated there are two separate required provisions of incorporated status that have to be addressed by the corporation, which includes non-profits: an annual meeting and, not or, a board of directors meeting. We won't go any further than that as far as provisions, except to say that there are others, among them, annual reports and adequate disclosure standards.
Sure. Is there any law that says the annual meeting must be adjourned during a banquet, as opposed to, say, the BoD meeting?

bs
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  #180 (permalink)  
Old 06-12-2008, 07:28 AM
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The requirements call for at least an annual general meeting and an annual board of directors meeting, which is why they cannot be combined. Other requirements include informing the membership of elections, etc. From what I have seen, the club is complying with all requirements. Now we just need to concentrate on having more fun!

Best regards,
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