Alfa 164

[usatrade]

Hi,

I am puzzled by the love and the crave for the Alfa 164 here in the US.
Who has the answer ?
If it is to use the car tho get the engine out I would understand but otherwise I just do not understand.

This car is rated as an awful looking/designed/engineered car in Europe.

I did the advertising launch of the car in Belgium and already then no one was impressed by this very plain automobile. Alfa Romeo had asked that we made a few thousand phone calls to cometitive make owners (more or less ready to change their cars - yeas Polk existed then in Belgium managing car owners files) we managed to get ONE prospect to come and look at the car (with KK $ spent on those phone calls)

Unfortunately a storm destroyed the roof of my storage room and the video tape of this launching has been destroyed. I called the studio who did the recording but they do not have that archive any longer neither.

Claude

[Gubi]

I don't have any strong feelings about the 164 either way, Claude. But knowing folks around here I sure hope you're wearing your flame resistant undies.

[usatrade]

I am just curious to understand why people go crazy for that very plain lokking and built automobile. that's all. I am not looking to start up a firing squad :-)
Claude

[Nicola]

Somebody much wiser than I once said, "Beauty is in the eye of the beholder".

[Alfissimo Int.]

Originally Posted by usatrade

Hi,

I am puzzled by the love and the crave for the Alfa 164 here in the US.
Who has the answer ?
If it is to use the car tho get the engine out I would understand but otherwise I just do not understand.

This car is rated as an awful looking/designed/engineered car in Europe.

Claude

Clearly you have never owned one, driven one for any length of time or understand them.
Funny you mention it is awful looking when I get comments on the car DAILY by anyone and everyone. Engineering, sure there are some bad points to the car...JUST like any car for that matter. Once you work on them for any period of time it becomes a breeze.

Design wise, seems to me most people think it is a very nice looking design and TIMELESS!! 164 owners and others!

Not sure your rant here? This car is plain for an Alfa but not plain by any means. What is so plain about it? I have never seen much of anything that looks like it?
What is your interpretation of a good looking car?



try driving a 164 QV 12V or 24V or a Q4 and then get back with us on this comment.

I always change peoples minds about the car when I take them for a drive.

I say too bad you don't like them. Your missing out on some fun. You must be another one of those FWD 164 haters.

There are a lot of ALFA's I do not prefer either. But there are a lot I do,.164 is one of them. But could care less why others like them a certain model or not.

[AlfaTango1]

Well you have to see the context of what was offered to the U.S. market at the time. MB 300 series and BMW 5 series oh and the very scarce Peugeot. I drove all but the Pug and to me the 164 was more engaging and absolutely more unique than the other offerings. In southern California all my counterparts drove the dime a dozen German cars and I never wanted to be part of that crowd. As you can see by the number of 164's sold that they were not that popular but now it's about the only Italian sedan that represents the era. I love the way it drives and makes me feel different from the crowd.

A respected automotive writer once said "You admire German cars but fall in love with Italian cars"

[Gubi]

Originally Posted by Alfissimo Int.

Clearly you have never owned one, driven one for any length of time or understand them.
Funny you mention it is awful looking when I get comments on the car DAILY by anyone and everyone. Engineering, sure there are some bad points to the car...JUST like any car for that matter. Once you work on them for any period of time it becomes a breeze.

Design wise, seems to me most people think it is a very nice looking design and TIMELESS!! 164 owners and others!

See, I warned you Claude. You've got Jason d-mn near foaming at the mouth now.

Just don't mention FWD. Then we'll all have to stand in the tea-chest and sing "England's Mountains Green" to calm him down

[Pat Braden]

I'm not looking for a "flame war" either. While the Berlina and the 164 cannot be compared, I'm going to do it anyway. The 164 is upscale with creature comforts well beyond my Berlina. But I love my Berlina nonetheless. For me the 164 offers more technology and styling, is comfortable, and it should be based on when it was produced, over the previous Alfa sedans; and it also solves my personal issue with the Milano. I find the Milano styling notchy, which is not terribly appealing to me. Furthermore, I get claustrophobia because of the front windshield pillar configuration which makes me feel like I need the window down to allow the fresh air to blow in my face, either as a passenger or driver, to keep me from heaving.

Pat and I owned most of the U.S. sedan models AFAIK except the Milano and 164. My favorite is the Berlina, his was either the Giulia Super or the TI, but I also found the Alfetta sedans very good every day drivers with children.

Having said all that, these were Pat's feelings that he expressed in From Portello to Arese:

"Many years ago, I proposed that history would blur the distinctions between the Giulia and Giulietta and make all the 4-cylinder cars a single identity, differing only in horsepower and displacement. In the same spirit, I propose that Fiat’s takeover of Alfa will be seen as the end of the marque, and the Milano, with all its shortcomings, as the last 'real' Alfa..."

[AlfaTango1]

Originally Posted by Pat Braden

I

Having said all that, these were Pat's feelings that he expressed in From Portello to Arese:

"Many years ago, I proposed that history would blur the distinctions between the Giulia and Giulietta and make all the 4-cylinder cars a single identity, differing only in horsepower and displacement. In the same spirit, I propose that Fiat’s takeover of Alfa will be seen as the end of the marque, and the Milano, with all its shortcomings, as the last 'real' Alfa..."

A lot of people feel this way and I understand their point but having owned both a Milano and two 164's L & S I can say that they are worlds apart in many ways. All in all from a daily driver perspective if I could have only one, it would be a 164 for sure.

[treborblack]

Claude does raise one point, the non body kitted series 2 cars do look plain imho and from a side on view people often ask id it's a Peugeot 605, but drive one and it's far from plain and very entertaining,

So get yourself a ride and i'll be gob smacked if that doesn't change your appreciation if not your desire to get one yourself

[Alfissimo Int.]

Originally Posted by Gubi

See, I warned you Claude. You've got Jason d-mn near foaming at the mouth now.

Just don't mention FWD. Then we'll all have to stand in the tea-chest and sing "England's Mountains Green" to calm him down

LOL. Grrrrrr

[usatrade]

To Treborblack
thanks for your answer. but maybe you did not read fully my thread. I did the launching of the car (in Belgium where speed limits were no too enforced - and we were in a castle in the countryside) and we all had to show the dealers what the car could do on the road. so it was miles and miles of fast and furious road tests. When over we all quickly came back to our Milanos (called 75 USA in Europe).
And maybe you are aware of the Alfa Romeo "deal" to make a big show with the 164's at the begining of each Formula 1 Grand Prix in Europe. Well, that did not last very long (thar cars were driven by factory pilots amongts others) and after a few "shows" they were all removed from the Formula 1 Grand Prix tracks as no one was impressed and too many (front wheel drive) Alfas crashed in front of the public. And beside the engine they are not much better than the Peugeot.
Nevertheless I am still curious to have more opinions about this. US opinions that is.
Obviously with strick speed limits and mainly straight and wide roads it is not easy to really push the car to its (very quickly reached) limits.
Curious Claude

[treborblack]

No i wasn't aware and i thank you for the info.

Imho the only thing Alfa got wrong with the 164 was the brakes on the 3.0. They quickly fade if driven with enthusiasm. but i've never gotten it out of shape yet.

[ChazzyD]

I'll take the design of the 164 over the design of all the U.S. mainstream cars that are designed by the "jelly bean" committee, any day Claude. That is the Toyotas, Hondas, Infinitis, Lexus, Fords, Chevys, Saturns, Pontiacs, Buicks etc, etc, etc. All seem to be designed to the lowest common denominator of "safe". This car was designed in the 80s and still looks modern. It's OK, you don't have to get it, stop racking your brain. In general though, ALL cars must be judged by the time frame of their conception, it doesn't really matter how they stack up to cars designed or even engineered in the present day. BTW, how many '91 model cars do I pass in a day? Not that many really. Think of cars more as "time capsules." Products of their time. If they are still useful and appreciated (by whomever) 15-20 years later, you should be happy and leave those folks alone to enjoy them. Do I understand the love some people have for say, a SAAB Sonnet or an Opel GT, etc? No, but I have never owned one or studied one. I am happy that some folks enjoy them and I am SURE they have their reasons.
Charles

[Alfisto Steve]

Peter Vack's article about the 164 with my input says it all for me VeloceToday - Online Magazine for Italian Car Enthusiasts! I have had my 164 for almost 18 years and still haven't found an offering in the US market to replace it. We now have 9 in the family between my son, daughter and myself.

We were just as crazy about Fiat Spiders, 131, Brava and X1/9. Never warmed up to Milano 2.5 or GTV6 even though I have owned them and never had a Verde. Had a Spica Spider but Fiat Spiders look better for me. Our 79 Alfetta was too underpowered for me.

Had Lancia Beta FWD and Scorpion aka Mone Carlo mid engine. For what I use 164 for sport sedan driving and family trips nothing has filled the void for us.