Alfa 164

[oz3litre]

The only thing that is a bit of a pain with our 164 is the over large turning circle. I have to remind myself of it if I have been driving the 75. Apart from that we love it. It is in such good condition that it feels like a new car. No car is perfect as we all know. We love all of our Alfas. They are all very different but are all great fun to drive and all sound wonderful. It's like we have a mechanical symphony orchestra in the garage and carport.

[Alfissimo Int.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat Braden Sean, Where do you fall in the California time line? Does it make me a truer Californian as a 3rd generation native or just a different breed of Californian?

[AlfaTango1]

I drove my Spider three days in a row since we have had some pretty nice weather here in SOCAL lately but Saturday I drove the S and I almost forgot how powerful it was in comparison, I almost took out the car parked across the street when I applied the same amount of pedal as in the Spider. Top down driving is great but the refinement in the 164's are worlds apart.

[Pat Braden]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfissimo Int. I did not know there where any left in California. I am a 4th generation Californian, but I got my arse out of dodge 10 years ago.

[Alfissimo Int.]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pat Braden The heat where you are would kill me...snow is nice. It is, I was simply responding to Sean's remark.... I'm at a real loss for a response, did you read the entire thread? I think I clearly indicated what Pat thought about the Milano and the 164 and that I preferred the 164 because I didn't like heaving my guts up as I rode in or drove a Milano; I'm sure the owner of the Milano wouldn't appreciate it either. Is that clear enough as to what the Milano interior configuration does to me either as a passenger or driver and why I prefer the 164? I think you're picking an argument where there isn't one to pick, but in case you missed it, that is my personal opinion as just an ordinary person whereas my husband actually had some Alfa credentials and standing; he wrote and published a few automotive books, as I recall, possibly three on Alfa and is cited in many other reputable and authoritative Alfa works worldwide. If you want to argue over his credentials go for it, but it won't be with me; his work does not require defending and has stood the test of time, including his MOTO award winning Weber book.

[richardbradford]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nicola Posted before -- Need I say more?

[AlfaTango1]

The pic is from a 24V model, 160 may be a tad optimistic but 150 I have no doubt about. My 12V has gone 140 many times and it was dead simple to drive at those speeds. Now the mythical 135mph Spider on the other hand....

[sjmst]

OK, Ladies and Gentlemen let's not get mad at USATRADE/ Claude. This is a softball lobbed right our way. "What's so great about the 164?"
What could be an easier question to answer?

Claude's criticisms.

Racing: NO, it does not, and will not, handle like a rear wheel drive car. Therefore, it is not a surprise that it was pulled from "racing."

Poor sales: Yes, ALL Alfas of the period were dogs in the sales dept (especially in the USA) It was not marketed correctly. Also, quirkiness that was perfectly acceptable in more popular marques (e.g. BMW) like console mounted window switches, where considered a minus in the Alfa. Further, while cars like Jaguars were even less reliable than Alfa, they got a "pass" as they were better known in the US market, could better weather the storm, and got taken over by Ford with a big budget to keep them afloat.

Appearance: Here, I have NO idea what Claude is talking about. He doesn't like it? Fine. Others he has spoken to did not? Fine too. But I personally have never met anyone who did not think it was beautiful. The US automotive press virtually unanimously praised the cars appearance (and most all everything else about it).

So, what do I like about my car?

It looks like almost nothing else (but in a good way).

The engine is so sweet and smooth.

It seats 4-5 in comfort.

Has all the toys (ABS, good sound system, WORKING A/C, power everything).

The engine is a work of art just to look at.

Cavernous trunk

That maligned FWD provides great wet and snow traction.

It makes me feel good (can't quantify that too much for you!)

[Alfisto Steve]

I want you all guys and gals alike to know. I courted my spouse in a new 164, let her drive it when it was less than a month in my possession with about 1500 on odometer. We now have close to 200k on clock. My daughter drives her own 164 and everytime she leaves the house and my wife watches her drive off she comments that is a good looking car.

My check book mech neighbors with their near new BMW's, Infininti's, etc are still amazed our 164's are approaching 18 years old. The car still turns heads so folks get over it! It is a classic Pininfaria design - quirky yes but still a damn nice Italian sports sedan.

I like air conditioned comfort and the Alfa whine so name another car we have available to us in the USA that offers that. I can cruise at 80 and play games with the rest of the new car market now found on the highway and know I am not part of the herd. Oh by the way my 164 has been mine not the banks for all of it's life. Now do you lease or make payments on your daily driver?

[AlfaTango1]

As I said in an earlier reply it seems to be geographical, a here versus there debate. It reminds me of when the MX5/Miata came out here and as good of reviews that it received at the time, I would have had my sexuality questioned had I bought one. There were many times when members of the fairer sex would laugh when a guy would drive by in one and shout out "Did it come with a free sex change operation?" Hey I'm sure that was not the case everywhere but even to this day around my part of the world it's considered a "Chick" car. Now I know this will open a whole new can of worms but that was and can be the perception depending on where one lives I bet.

[aralfa8589]

I bought a '91 164S because I figured Alfa couldn't build an unsatisfactory FWD. They are a great car.

[cento64s]

"This car is rated as an awful looking/designed/engineered car in Europe.

I did the advertising launch of the car in Belgium and already then no one was impressed by this very plain automobile."

Excuse me, I read the post and wanted to give a little opinion on the initial question/statement. I am not sure who rated this car awful looking/designed/engineered. I believe that you spoke for Belgium perhaps, then again, I do not recall the 164 being the laughingstock of the automobile industry. (this is the way it sounded to me).
In Italy as well as in England, France, Germany, Spain, Switzerland, Austria, etc., the 164 was viewed as a great car. But perhaps we should get some facts straight. In the us most 164s showed up exclusively with a V6 3.0 engine, an engine that in no way, could have been affordable by most European drivers. In fact, with the price of Gasoline and latter costs (Tax on KW and HPs), the 3.0 was a pure Tabu in Europe, at least for those of medium income. The 164 also came with smaller 4 cilinder gas, diesel engines, some of those not particularly appealing to people who drove a 3.0 V6. In fact, many models were rather plain and came with basic cloth interior. However, if the car was poorly built, could you explain why the Fiat Croma and the Lancia Tema utilized the same subframe chassis alongside with the 164 and of course, the Saab 9000? I must point out that the Tema and the Croma were structurally sound enough to sport a Ferrari engine on two rare models, the Croma Ferrari, and the Tema Ferrari.
Next, you said it was a poor design, to whose opinion? Last I checked it appears as the Alfa 164 is "Carrozzata Farina". Maybe as we all know, Pininfarina's designs are practically those never to go out of style, and to truly look still in style many years away from conception. In fact, many of my friends always believed my former 164S to be a 2000-2002 model car. Poorly equipped, I think not. The 1991 S had Recaro Interior, Leather and not plastic, almost completely for the S and almost so for the L LS models. The S also was equipped with electronic sport suspension and a Climatization system. Also, you always got electric heated mirrors, seats, headlight washers, electric moon roof and alloy wheels, anti lock brakes and driver's side airbag.
This automobile is equipped with everything a person would desire, and surely enough is the most reliable and comfortable Alfa that was ever made available in the US. For an Alfista, this car is the best means of living/driving a legend everyday.
Now, Look at the attached list:
1991 Mazda RX7, 1974 Fiat 124 Spider 1.8, 1980 Fiat 124 Spider 2000, 1986 Dodge Daytona Turbo, 1994 Chevrolet Cavalier Z24, 1986 Chevrolet G20 Van V8 350, 1991 Volkswagen Golf GTI 16V, 1996 Mitsubishi Eclipse Turbo, 1993 Nissan 240 Sx, 1989 Toyota Corolla FX16 GTS, 1989 Alfa Romeo 75 (Milano) 2.5 heavily modded "still own", 1997 Saturn twin cam Coupe, 1993 Saturn SL1 commuter, 1994 Suzuki Swift GTI, 2001 Kia Sportage, 2001 Ford Focus ZX3, 2001 Volkswagen Golf TDI, 1991 BMW M3, 2003 Volkswagen Cabrio 2.0, 1987 Nissan Sentra coupe, 1989 Honda Accord, 1995 Cadillac Seville, 1991 Geo Prizm LSi 16V (pretty much a corolla), 1997 Volvo 850 Turbo, 1993 Acura Integra GSR, 1991 Alfa Romeo 164S, 1986 Toyota Corolla Supercharged "still own", 2005 Cadillac CTS 3.6 V6, 2003 Nissan Frontier Crewcab, 2008 Chrysler Pacifica.
Now, aside from the the trucks (including suv, minivam=n, van) and the two or three occasional crapy cars I owned, I believe to have had a good share of decent automobiles. I have to say that lots of those cars were fun to drive, do not be deceived, I have driven my good share of cars in Italy when I go on vacation to visit the family. Amongst those a few Citroens, a Peugeot 205 Rally,a Delta Integrale, my father's Tigra and also yes, a Diablo VT once. I can gladly say that with exception of the friend's VT, the 164 has offered me a unique pleasing and fully satisfactory driving experience. I drove this car through the mountains of West Virginia, from Western Pennsylvania all the way down to the North Carolina coast (on occasion I had to tow due to an inevitable overheating problem, but thanks to Alfisto Steve I got her back on the road soon after). I still would like to go for a drive through Moshannon State Forest with my old S following the member who said the Peugeot 16V can leave the 164 in the dust around corners, It would be an interesting experience. I totally anniliated a guy with a 2006 Jetta VR6 GLI who could not do more but to move over and let me by after an exciting 15 minute winding drive. He stopped at the park's recreation area, and came with a bunch of questions about my mysterious looking ride. I believe he sold his Jetta that night and went on a desperate search for a 164. Although decisively slower on takeoff than most new cars, I have to say that nothing is more pleasing that the feeling of pure metal, motor and machinery that you can enjoy with this ride. The car is also extremely quiet due to the excellent multiple layers of insulation and weatherstripping, so I don't quite comprehend where the comment on the car being cheaply made came from.
Finally, I like this car soo much that I sold my CTS and I am getting ready to re-purchase my old 164S from a fellow Alfista who had bought it for his son. I will never want to drive another car again, neither I will let my wife convince me to part from her again. Ultimately, call me crazy, maybe is because I nearly left two fingers in the engine compartment of my car, but I believe that every one of the guys in this forum knows exactly what I am talking about, the way I feel and the experience the car offers, much more than a ride or a fast ride, but rather I would say the pure raw driving experience that not every man appreciates. In conclusion, a unique enjoyment, only one that the 164 can provide.

[oz3litre]

I don't understand the "poorly made" comment either. My 1992 164 has had three owners beside me and is in almost mint condition. The first owner was a company who had it for about nine years, then another guy briefly, the fellow club member I bought it from for another seven or eight and now me. It was obviously very well looked after by all of those people but it has done a lot of kms. The doors and boot close under their own weight with the slightest push. I have never owned or seen another car that good. The interior is like new and everything works. The paint inside the doors and under the bonnet is like new and so is the carpet in the boot. It drives, feels and looks like a new car. Even careful owners can't stop crappy cars from falling apart and looking rough. In my opinion the 164 is near the top of the list in the build quality department. When you add in the superb engine, driving dynamics, comfort and the smile it puts on your face it is very hard to beat as a family car and fast tourer.