Was there ever a perion when alfa made QUALITY cars?

[Joe Papa Sr]

Just wondering, if there was a period, say, a decade or so when alfa actually made high quality cars, NOT just the engine!!

And other than the engin foundry, which other, if any , part /component would be considered "made well"? (eg: transmission, electrical, body.etc)?

Im guessing, just the suspension......

OOPs, I meant "period", not "perion" in title of thread.

[Arna]

The leather in their cars was always good quality.

[yvesmontreal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Papa Sr Just wondering, if there was a period, say, a decade or so when alfa actually made high quality cars, NOT just the engine!!

[Nipper]

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvesmontreal the "plastic is my kingdom" interior of the 80's cars.

[yvesmontreal]

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Originally Posted by Nipper That's funny and true.

[sh0rtlife]

yeah "most" car company's dropped the ball after the 60's....after 1975 most cars just went to crap on built quality..by the 1980's cars became "disposable" ......from the 80's on the disposable factor has multiplied so much that the cars are not really designed to be around more than 4 years

quality is judgmental..it all depends on what your comparing it to......as long as your not comparing to say a benz, bmw or other "high end" car id say there quality was far better than most everything else out there

[Zunige]

It also depends on how people take care of their cars... Everyone that I know who actually followed their maintenance manual (or did regular maintenance on their own) has a gorgeous car. Most of those people are odd balls, nonetheless. I have a couple of Alfas that haven't lost their "quality", and they are very competitive at the national concours...

Best regards,

[tubut]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe Papa Sr Just wondering, if there was a period, say, a decade or so when alfa actually made high quality cars, NOT just the engine!!

[yvesmontreal]

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Originally Posted by tubut From a number of conversations I had, one coachbuilder seems to stand out: Several bodyshops and mechanics I talked to (who intimately know Alfas and other cars such as Ferraris, Lancias and Maseratis as well) told me that the 1900, 102 (2000) and 106 (2600) cars built by Carozzeria Touring are of superb quality.

[alfavirusnz]

Guys go read some Alfa books, and if you can have a look at contempory cars, and go onto other makes discussion groups. Alfa Romeo during the 1920`s to 1940`s made cars which were handbuilt in small numbers and were extremely expensive-they were the pre war Ferrari and occupied exactly the same market position as Ferrari do now , only they were more exclusive because of the much smaller numbers built. After the ww2 they became more of a mass production company with the 1900 but again though their racing experience, engineering heritage etc they were built for the upper middle classes, not the super rich and materials, quality of construction, performance etc etc was well above "ordinary production cars" of the time. Remember the Giulietta was still a middle class car, priced above Fiats, Fords, VWs etc in Mainland Europe and again features materials, performance (and reliability and durability)were well above average. Alfas have generally been seen as tougher mechanically than most other brands, hence their success in endurance events etc.
105`s , 116s etc were the equal of contempory BMW`s and Mercedes except the Italians decided to keep to small and medium sized cars whereas BMW & MB built bigger luxury cars which has the positive effect (particularly in capacity concious USA) of making the brand appear more upmarket. in the UK during the time of the Alfetta (116`s) the motoring press considered the Alfetta Saloon to be a superior car to MB in the early `70`s. Metal quality is really the Italian motor industry`s major downfall during the `70`s coupled with a militant workforce which didn`t give a **** about quality (Most of Europe was the same-but MB, BMW &VW seemed less effected) Remember also interiors in vinyl during the `60`s & `70`s were very modern-cloth & leater were old fashioned & used for conservative cars. Remember also the Italians are more "edgey" in their design and with some fashion it dates very quickly-sometimes conservatism can stand the test of time better and give the impression of higher quality but vinyl/plasticy interior was very "in" once when you were trying to be avante guard.
Having owned a European workshop and owned & raced BMW`s, Porsches, a Ferrari Testarossa, Lancias (the good ones-pre Fiat o/ship-fantastic quality) and Mercedes Benz`s I can tell you Alfa Romeo was right up there and superior to most.
Bye the way my W124 E280 supposedly one of the best MB`s built (last of the "quality built Mercedes Benz`s according to anyone who supposedly knows) is sitting until I repair the engine wiring harness(an extremely common fault with this era MB- because MB built wiring harnesses where the insulation disintergrates anywhere where exposed to heat. ECU also blown because of short circuit. The engine is MB`s great M104 inline 6 complete with 24 valves, variable valve timing etc etc but they have a known fault-the head hasn`t sufficient head bolt spacing and they leak oil into the coolant. The earlier model with a sohc (M103) also suffers the same problem.
My daily driver C200 has also given electrical problems (just like an Alfa is supposed to) and our 3 series BMW always has to have attention to door locks, and electrical bits and pieces plus synchro on 1st when downchanging doesn`t work anymore.
now did I mention the weak diffs on 2002`s, rust, cloth uphostery which wore out really quickly, weak synchro, heads that crack (common & ongoing BMW inline 4 & 6 problem), valve gear that gets noisy because of a cheap nasty oiling system etc etc.
They have never made the perfect car yet-that`s the hype of marketing men or people that have never really had much to do with cars.

Richard J

`65 Giulia Ti, `69 GT Junior, `74 GTV 2000, `76 Alfetta GTV, `77 Alfetta, `84 GTV6, `90 164
plus`96 E36 BMW 318, `94 MB E280, `97 MB C200

[Il Vecchio]

IMO, easily the 1930's.

The 1750 GS and 8C2300/2600's were matched only by the Bugatti Type 55, and the 8C2900A/B was the McLaren F1 of it's era- independant front and rear suspension, DOHC 8cl, twin superchargers, and gorgeous build quality.

The Jano-designed drivetrains are like giant Swiss watches.

[AR58SprintV]

Right, except that Alfa is not the prewar Ferrari, rather Ferrari is the post-war Alfa Romeo after Alfa stopped racing the 159 Alfettas.

[Duk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Il Vecchio IMO, easily the 1930's. The 1750 GS and 8C2300/2600's were matched only by the Bugatti Type 55, and the 8C2900A/B was the McLaren F1 of it's era- four wheel IRS, DOHC 8cl, twin superchargers, and gorgeous build quality. The Jano-designed drivetrains are like giant Swiss watches.

[alfavirusnz]

Yes I quite agree regarding attention to detail with Japanese cars and things like wire routing etc is an example of better attention to details the British, French & Italian manufacturers just didn`t seem to care about. Japanese product generally was also better evolved and developed than late `70`s-early `90`s Alfas but look at metallurgy of mechanical components, quality of fasteners etc and Alfas weren`t inferior. It is aknowledged however that again the Japanese during this era made a concious effort, and succeeded in producing oil tight engines, more reliable electrical componentry etc and it is they who we should thank for raising the quality level of the modern car, not through superior materials but generally through fastidious attention to detail and proper development programmes to eliminate bugs before release to the market.
However this particular thread questions as to whether Alfa Romeo ever produced quality cars and the answer of course is yes-they for a very long time regarded as one of the very best no matter which aspect you care to compare.

Richard J

`65 Giulia Ti, `69 GT Junior, `74 GTV 2000, `76 Alfetta GTV, `77 Alfetta GTV, `84 GTV6