04-11-2007, 04:23 PM
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sydney Australia
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by ossodiseppia
From what I can see, there are many things that just don't seem to add up. One of the things that I find most disturbing is Darren's lack of interest after making his posting that the car was stolen.
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Anyway that's it from me.
Pete
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04-11-2007, 04:39 PM
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73 GT Junior
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: CA, 90210
Posts: 240
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Car theft is a complicated subject.
I'm sure Daron not Darren is feeling as bad as Papajam, and realizes that the more he says online, the more some dramatic people will take this into an all out movie for BBers. The fact of the matter is a lot of the things and opinions said and mentioned have already been discussed between the 2 parties (where do you think the photos of the stolen items came from?) We as most of you out here have said have a duty to help and put out rewards and search for "for sale" signs and so forth, but not judge what or who, why and how. Daron is a very professional person and has cars to restore and post educational threads for all of us to learn from. The offer of replacing the lost car has always been there and will be the final resort if the insurance company fails to figure out this mess. This is an accident just like any; and will take time to fix. There are several families that make up "Vintage Customs" and negativity from the BB is not helping anyone!  |
04-11-2007, 04:51 PM
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Capistrano Beach. Calif
Posts: 461
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I have found it amazing how fast some are throwing Daron under the bus! I don't know him, but I know he feels horrible. Keep in mind, unless I'm mistaken, insurance is NOT going to pay him a dime for the trailer that was his. All he has is a cancelled check! I feel terrible for papajam and akitaman. Both are truly great people on this BB. I find it horrible the person that WILL get paid is the guy that got his money back after cancelling the check on the trailer AND gets to keep the insurance money. Something is wrong there!! I have a feeling this will be the longest running thread in Alfa BB history.........
Last edited by jimcra; 04-11-2007 at 04:53 PM.
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04-11-2007, 05:55 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sydney Australia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelalfaholic
I'm sure Daron not Darren is feeling as bad as Papajam, and realizes that the more he says online, the more some dramatic people will take this into an all out movie for BBers. The fact of the matter is a lot of the things and opinions said and mentioned have already been discussed between the 2 parties (where do you think the photos of the stolen items came from?) We as most of you out here have said have a duty to help and put out rewards and search for "for sale" signs and so forth, but not judge what or who, why and how. Daron is a very professional person and has cars to restore and post educational threads for all of us to learn from. The offer of replacing the lost car has always been there and will be the final resort if the insurance company fails to figure out this mess. This is an accident just like any; and will take time to fix. There are several families that make up "Vintage Customs" and negativity from the BB is not helping anyone! |
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Pete
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04-11-2007, 06:24 PM
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4*Foglio
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Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NC, USA
Posts: 124
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I just read through both threads and I'd like to express my sorrow to both Papajam and Akitaman... this is truly a case of bad things happening to good people.
A few observations/comments:
The Mexico thing seems like a real possibility... I take an annual trip to Baja and it is amazing the number of cars/tractor/tractor trailers that are obviously stolen down there.
Many on the board have the Craigs List/Ebay side of things covered. I personally keep an eye peeled for any Alfa. I'd like to suggest the all do the same (as usual) but make sure to look very thoroughly and nosily without getting shot... I find it amazing what you can turn up if you really look hard.
my 2 pence...
Dan
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'86 Spider Quadrifoglio
'91 164B
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04-11-2007, 06:35 PM
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In the Spiders' nest...
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nutley/NJ & Middletown/OH, USA
Posts: 4,629
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelalfaholic
I'm sure Daron not Darren is feeling as bad as Papajam, and realizes that the more he says online, the more some dramatic people will take this into an all out movie for BBers. The fact of the matter is a lot of the things and opinions said and mentioned have already been discussed between the 2 parties (where do you think the photos of the stolen items came from?) We as most of you out here have said have a duty to help and put out rewards and search for "for sale" signs and so forth, but not judge what or who, why and how. Daron is a very professional person and has cars to restore and post educational threads for all of us to learn from. The offer of replacing the lost car has always been there and will be the final resort if the insurance company fails to figure out this mess. This is an accident just like any; and will take time to fix. There are several families that make up "Vintage Customs" and negativity from the BB is not helping anyone! |
We can best contribute by:- Keeping our eyes open for anything that looks suspicious.
- Allowing Akitaman and Papajam the time they need to deal with the insurance, etc. This will take some time and it will be a war.
- Wating for the legal ourcome and then perhaps we as a community can suggest how we can contribute, since no one will win here. It's about mitigating the loss to some manageable degree. (Interfering could actually hurt the case rather than help it.)
- Being supportive of all parties at all times.
Best regards,
__________________
Enrique
Spider 74, 84 & 87
164 93L & 95Q
Milano 88 Verde
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04-11-2007, 09:18 PM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Sacramento,CA
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manuelalfaholic
I'm sure Daron not Darren is feeling as bad as Papajam, and realizes that the more he says online, the more some dramatic people will take this into an all out movie for BBers. The fact of the matter is a lot of the things and opinions said and mentioned have already been discussed between the 2 parties (where do you think the photos of the stolen items came from?) We as most of you out here have said have a duty to help and put out rewards and search for "for sale" signs and so forth, but not judge what or who, why and how. Daron is a very professional person and has cars to restore and post educational threads for all of us to learn from. The offer of replacing the lost car has always been there and will be the final resort if the insurance company fails to figure out this mess. This is an accident just like any; and will take time to fix. There are several families that make up "Vintage Customs" and negativity from the BB is not helping anyone! |
+3 I agree as well.
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04-11-2007, 09:42 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dexter, Michigan USA
Posts: 2,365
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Papajam's Car Stolen !!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ossodiseppia
From what I can see, there are many things that just don't seem to add up. One of the things that I find most disturbing is Darren's lack of interest after making his posting that the car was stolen.
To me this statement implies he has washed his hands of the deal and has thrown Papajam to the dogs.
Why is it that Jim had to call the Police and get the report? Why didn't Darren send him a copy of it?
Why isn't this information coming from Darren?  |
Let me begin by saying I have lived this scenario the entire time I was married to Pat and I am no stranger nor newcomer to the "blame game," critcisim of every word that hits the page, character assassination, and public apologies being demanded; it is a no win situation and only creates dissension among all who should be supportive of both parties at this time. You can never please everyone all the time no matter what the offer or response to the criticism, problem, disagreement etc. There are wonderful times and there are some not so wonderful times and this is one of those not so wonderful times or experiences for both Daron and Jim. Keep in mind these were valuable pieces of "merchandise" that were stolen but there was no life lost....these can be replaced.
I am not about to take sides in this but I will try and address a couple of your questions/concerns with assumptions that I made, right or wrong.... I know no more than you do, only what has been posted. The first I knew of the car being stolen was Simon's post; I don't read every thread and it's not my job to anyway, so I didn't even see Daron's original post until the link was supplied by others.
I assumed since this involved the two parties that have been identified that they had some kind of agreement about how much detail would or would not be posted as it related to the other's position, meaning Jim's car and Daron's business. I assumed that Daron let Jim make the decision whether he wanted the police report posted since it was his car that was stolen and he decided to release the information. While the loss of the trailer is significant to Daron it does not affect the members of the bb like the Alfa being stolen that was at a place of business having work performed by a fellow bber.
I further assumed that Daron had good legal advice and probably was told not to post anything with too much detail while trying to settle with the insurance company over the loss. AFAIK, Daron would have no reason to "wash his hands of the situation and throw Jim to the dogs." It would not only be irresponsible but would drive his reputation and business into the ground. I have to believe there is a missing piece that we are all not privy to and probably for a good reason. We are outsiders looking in that have been asked for a simple thing, help, with the resources we all have: eyes and ears to watch for both the missing Alfa and the trailer.
The third assumption that I made was that it was purposely kept quiet in the beginning: one, to prevent exactly what has happened in this thread, and two, to allow immediate recovery without everyone knowing what was being looked for, if possible. It's obvious by now that that did not happen, sadly.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by manuelalfaholic
The offer of replacing the lost car has always been there and will be the final resort if the insurance company fails to figure out this mess.
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This is the first that I've seen posted of this and I have no reason to doubt it's accuracy, providing it's true and accurate it certainly addresses that Daron is not cutting and running and intends to resolve the situation equitably and fairly, keeping in mind that it takes two parties to agree and I have no reason to believe that an agreement could not be reached if each side is fair about what was and what is as far as what needs to be replaced -- not expecting better than what was lost. I would not put it past Daron to give up one of his own cars to satisfy the loss --- that's the kind of guy that he is.
Just because I was curious, I Googled some law and technically a "repair shop" is not liable for theft of a vehicle or it's contents unless the repair shop was negligent. Just off hand, I would say if the trailer was locked, secured within a fenced area, and locked to a hitching pole, building etc. as seemed to be indicated in one of the posts that would certainly qualify as due diligence and is far from demonstrating negligence. Just my opinion, worth exactly that. So, in fact, if Daron has offered to replace the stolen vehicle that is above and beyond what is required by law; but what most of us would probably expect and have to go to court to obtain. So if an offer is on the table I would say that he is acting responsibly and as the Alfa community would expect.
Now that you've read all of this, the most important thing for all of us is not to pick sides, no matter who's friendly with whom and be supportive of both parties involved in the loss. I'm sure in the end it will all come out in the wash however the loss is resolved, by insurance, replacement, recovery, etc. and to do our part as far as watching for the car and trailer.
__________________
Cheryl
(Not an authority nor SME
on anything, just PATSYF)
Last edited by Pat Braden; 04-20-2007 at 07:26 PM.
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04-11-2007, 10:30 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 455
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To Jim and Daron,
So sorry to hear about this theft from you two gentlemen.
It is heart warming to see how quickly out tight knit Alfa community rallies to fight this injustice... Outrage manifested quickly. Let us not seek to lay blame as that serves no purpose but to fuel the fires of outrage. Let us instead seek to solve the problem through our vast network. We can do it if not quickly, in time...
Post #165 of the original thread by Jim regarding the aquisition and subsequent restoration of the GTV in question provides much of the relevant information that could help our vigilant network solve this problem. I will print a copy of that post and put it in my glove box for reference when I come across GTV's or similar trailers at Infineon. I'll also give a copy to my Alfa shop which does a number of restorations just in case the GTV should surface in California.
You never know what we can do until we try. Just remember not to take the law into your own hands if you do find either the trailer or the GTV because we don't want to have to visit you in jail....that's where the thieves belong with a welcoming cellmate they will be calling "Daddy"....
__________________
Keep the revs up! 
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04-12-2007, 06:32 AM
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Working in the yard
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Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Broomfield, Colorado U.S.A
Posts: 3,677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Braden
Bryan:
Let me begin by saying I have lived this scenario the entire time I was married to Pat and I am no stranger nor newcomer to the "blame game," critcisim of every word that hits the page, character assassination, and public apologies being demanded; it is a no win situation and only creates dissension among all who should be supportive of both parties at this time. You can never please everyone all the time no matter what the offer or response to the criticism, problem, disagreement etc. There are wonderful times and there are some not so wonderful times and this is one of those not so wonderful times or experiences for both Daron and Jim. Keep in mind these were valuable pieces of "merchandise" that were stolen but there was no life lost....these can be replaced.
I am not about to take sides in this but I will try and address a couple of your questions/concerns with assumptions that I made, right or wrong.... I know no more than you do, only what has been posted. The first I knew of the car being stolen was Simon's post; I don't read every thread and it's not my job to anyway, so I didn't even see Daron's original post until the link was supplied by others.
I assumed since this involved the two parties that have been identified that they had some kind of agreement about how much detail would or would not be posted as it related to the other's position, meaning Jim's car and Daron's business. I assumed that Daron let Jim make the decision whether he wanted the police report posted since it was his car that was stolen and he decided to release the information. While the loss of the trailer is significant to Daron it does not affect the members of the bb like the Alfa being stolen that was at a place of business having work performed by a fellow bber.
I further assumed that Daron had good legal advice and probably was told not to post anything with too much detail while trying to settle with the insurance company over the loss. AFAIK, Daron would have no reason to "wash his hands of the situation and throw Jim to the dogs." It would not only be irresponsible but would drive his reputation and business into the ground. I have to believe there is a missing piece that we are all not privy to and probably for a good reason. We are outsiders looking in that have been asked for a simple thing, help, with the resources we all have: eyes and ears to watch for both the missing Alfa and the trailer.
The third assumption that I made was that it was purposely kept quiet in the beginning: one, to prevent exactly what has happened in this thread, and two, to allow immediate recovery without everyone knowing what was being looked for, if possible. It's obvious by now that that did not happen, sadly.
This is the first that I've seen posted of this and I have no reason to doubt it's accuracy, providing it's true and accurate it certainly addresses that Daron is not cutting and running and intends to resolve the situation equitably and fairly, keeping in mind that it takes to parties to agree and I have no reason to believe that an agreement could not be reached if each side is fair about what was and what is as far as what needs to be replaced -- not expecting better than what was lost. I would not put it past Daron to give up one of his own cars to satisfy the loss --- that's the kind of guy that he is.
Just because I was curious, I Googled some law and technically a "repair shop" is not liable for theft of a vehicle or it's contents unless the repair shop was negligent. Just off hand, I would say if the trailer was locked, secured within a fenced area, and locked to a hitching pole, building etc. as seemed to be indicated in one of the posts that would certainly qualify as due diligence and is far from demonstrating negligence. Just my opinion, worth exactly that. So, in fact, if Daron has offered to replace the stolen vehicle that is above and beyond what is required by law; but what most of us would probably expect and have to go to court to obtain. So if an offer is on the table I would say that he is acting responsibly and as the Alfa community would expect.
Now that you've read all of this, the most important thing for all of us is not to pick sides, no matter who's friendly with whom and be supportive of both parties involved in the loss. I'm sure in the end it will all come out in the wash however the loss is resolved, by insurance, replacement, recovery, etc. and to do our part as far as watching for the car and trailer.
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Cheryl,
I knew that when I posted, I would recieve some flak. I carefully read through Daron's and Jim's posts on the matter. My comments are based on those postings. My opinion is that things don't add up. I am comfortable with my opinion, just as you and others are comfortable with yours. Both Jim and Daron have been tight lipped about this issue, so we don't have all of the facts. When I see more facts that prove me to be wrong, I will be happy to admit my errors and make appologies.
In Daron's defense, there is no doubt that he has great knowledge and skill. I have enjoyed reading every one of his posts. The quality of his work appears to be among the best I have seen. My opinion is only based on his posts and pictures.
I prefer to wait and see what develops before I eat crow. Thanks for your comments.
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04-12-2007, 07:55 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dexter, Michigan USA
Posts: 2,365
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Papajam's Car Stolen!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by ossodiseppia
Cheryl,
I knew that when I posted, I would recieve some flak.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ossodiseppia
I carefully read through Daron's and Jim's posts on the matter. My comments are based on those postings. My opinion is that things don't add up. I am comfortable with my opinion, just as you and others are comfortable with yours. Both Jim and Daron have been tight lipped about this issue, so we don't have all of the facts. When I see more facts that prove me to be wrong, I will be happy to admit my errors and make appologies.
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We are in agreement here; no one is asking anyone to make apologies or admit errors, we are all entitled to our opinions and they are exactly that based on the way each of us individually interprets what has been posted based on our own knowledge of the subject matter and life experiences that pertain to, bias, or shade the topic in some way. The posts purpose was only to ask that we all continue to be thoughtful in a non-confrontational way since confrontation helps no one, including all the outsiders on the bb that are not party to the transaction. And, just so there is no mistake, I am not indicating that you were confrontational, but I can see this thread heading that direction with the continued language selection that is appropriate for use in winning a debate or successfully cornering the opponent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ossodiseppia
In Daron's defense, there is no doubt that he has great knowledge and skill. I have enjoyed reading every one of his posts. The quality of his work appears to be among the best I have seen. My opinion is only based on his posts and pictures.
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As are mine and some knowledge of what it is like to live under the conditions that are coming to roost in this thread. It is not fun for anyone, including the immediate family which is drawn in unintentionally. While some people are better about not bringing home there 8-5 jobs and keeping it to themselves, this is one of the big exceptions when it's a | |
