06-08-2012, 01:50 PM
|
 |
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 872
|
|
 Quote:
Originally Posted by Con Gusto
An Alfa without an Alfa engine is not an Alfa. Period.
|
I'll second this comment.
Also,
A Ferrari is the insecure man's Alfa Romeo. 
|
|
Sponsored Links
|
Advertisement
| |
|
06-08-2012, 02:08 PM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 483
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Con Gusto
The detuned cross-plane crank 3.0 32v engine used in the Thema 8.32 is a lovely engine. It is even lovelier in a Ferrari 308QV where it has its original bigger valves and flat-plane crank. I have no doubt, though, that it would not be an improvement over the Alfa 3.0 v-6 if used in a 164, since my recollection is that reviewers at the time nearly all preferred the road manners of the 164 over the Saab 9000/Fiat Croma/Lancia Thema 8.32 (all of which shared the same platform), probably as a result of the 164's better weight distribution, at least when compared to the Lancia.
As for my feelings with respect to the Dino, please read post #16. Same story for the Stratos. Note also that that v-6 was an oddball engine for Ferrari at the time, and very different from the DNA of their then current products. 206s and 246s were of course badged as "Dino's", never Ferraris, as were the first 308 GT4s. There are many stories as to why these were so badged, but one popular one is that Enzo Ferrari believed that a "proper" roadgoing Ferrari at the time must have 12 cylinders. Perhaps myth (had he forgotten the 750 Monza?) but at least consistent with some sort of defining character for the brand which bore his name. The engine was entirely consistent, though, with a lithe little rally car like the Stratos.
An Alfa without an Alfa engine is not an Alfa. Period. A Montreal with an SBC would go like stink and perform better than original, but it wouldn't be a Montreal. An Alfa with a Ferrari engine might be fun, might be interesting, but still is not an Alfa. See my post on "DNA" at #16.
|
Come on people, you all know the same people designed the Italian cars back then for Alfa and Ferrari. To name a few, Chiti worked for Alfa then Ferrari than back to Alfa. He designed almost the same V8 engine for Ferrari and ATS, then for Alfa. Jano was back and forth between FIAT, Alfa, Lancia and Ferrari and helped designs many of the engines for all those marques. The more you know about old Italian cars the more you realize they are all alot alike because they were designed by the same people. And yes Alfa's were like a small engined high production Ferrari.
Last edited by F1 Tommy; 06-08-2012 at 02:25 PM.
|
06-08-2012, 02:17 PM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 151
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MALDI
Please sir, do not toy with my hopes and dreams!  |
Wait...and see!
|
06-09-2012, 09:17 AM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,887
|
|
|
The only thing that is important is that our ALFA ROMEOS's are...
ITALIAN
__________________
Ciao tutti
93 Spider (red)
87 Milano (not red)
|
06-09-2012, 06:00 PM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 425
|
|
A forced-induction V6 engine with approximately 420 hp will be built by Ferrari for the next-generation Maserati Quattroporte. I wonder if this engine is the same or similar to the one that will supposedly go into future Alfa Romeos.
Maserati Quattroporte to get Ferrari-built supercharged V6, turbo V8
__________________
...so cool they've been illegal in all fifty states since 1995!
|
06-09-2012, 07:50 PM
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2005
Location: seattle
Posts: 5,034
|
|
|
I suspect this might possibly be based on the new Chrysler Pentastar V-6, purported to develop 420 hp with double turbochargers, which Fiat now has rights to.
__________________
Del
Seattle
89 Milano
91 164S
94 164LS (Q)
72 Morgan 27
Last edited by Del; 06-09-2012 at 07:53 PM.
|
06-10-2012, 04:20 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: South Florida
Posts: 151
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Del
I suspect this might possibly be based on the new Chrysler Pentastar V-6, purported to develop 420 hp with double turbochargers, which Fiat now has rights to.
|
The new Maserati's engine is not based on the Pentastar, it is an all-new design.
|
06-10-2012, 11:14 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,887
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MALDI
I'll second this comment.
Also,
A Ferrari is the insecure man's Alfa Romeo. |
This is stupid bullsh!t and makes no sense.
__________________
Ciao tutti
93 Spider (red)
87 Milano (not red)
|
06-10-2012, 11:41 AM
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: May 2005
Location: seattle
Posts: 5,034
|
|
|
"The new Maserati's engine is not based on the Pentastar, it is an all-new design"
Could this be a case of reinventing the wheel? I'm not sure Fiat has the money to design an entirely new engine just for the heck of it. But whatever. The Pentastar is a superior engine design, so I've read in the car mags.
__________________
Del
Seattle
89 Milano
91 164S
94 164LS (Q)
72 Morgan 27
|
06-11-2012, 12:28 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 6,274
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by aldo
This is stupid bullsh!t and makes no sense.
|
Makes perfect sense to me.
I'm perfectly happy being an Alfisti and do not go to bed every night wishing I owned a Ferrari. Thus the only good thing about this thread is that at least it's an Italian engine ... but so were the FIAT ones .
Pete
__________________
ps: Remember it's all just opinions
'71 1750 Series 2 GTV: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?p=208078
|
06-11-2012, 03:50 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 483
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by PSk
Makes perfect sense to me.
I'm perfectly happy being an Alfisti and do not go to bed every night wishing I owned a Ferrari. Thus the only good thing about this thread is that at least it's an Italian engine ... but so were the FIAT ones .
Pete |
So you have no problem with a Mazda/Alfa but are all upset about a Ferrari engined Alfa?? I hope you are kidding. Other than the parts cost a Ferrari designed Alfa engine is the best an Italian car enthusiast could hope for now.
And Alfa's are and always were like high production baby Ferrari's, but with 10 year old Ferrari technology.
|
06-11-2012, 06:25 AM
|
|
Senior Member
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 872
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1 Tommy
And Alfa's are and always were like high production baby Ferrari's
|
Counter example: the transaxle series of Alfas are really updated Lancia Aurelias: 60 degree V6 engine; transaxle w/ rear mounted clutch; inboard rear brakes; de Dion rear suspension (in later Aurelias); lack of a torque tube. In the early '70s Alfa was clearly looking to the Lancias of the '50s for inspiration.
On the other hand Ferraris are associated with V12s and mid-mounted engines neither of which are Alfa traits.
The only thing the two marques share in common is a general Italian sensibility in automotive design and engineering, but then this sensibility is also shared by Fiat, Lancia, Lamborghini, and Maserati.
|
06-11-2012, 07:19 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago
Posts: 483
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MALDI
Counter example: the transaxle series of Alfas are really updated Lancia Aurelias: 60 degree V6 engine; transaxle w/ rear mounted clutch; inboard rear brakes; de Dion rear suspension (in later Aurelias); lack of a torque tube. In the early '70s Alfa was clearly looking to the Lancias of the '50s for inspiration.
On the other hand Ferraris are associated with V12s and mid-mounted engines neither of which are Alfa traits.
The only thing the two marques share in common is a general Italian sensibility in automotive design and engineering, but then this sensibility is also shared by Fiat, Lancia, Lamborghini, and Maserati.
|
All those 4 cylinder and 6 cylinder 1950's Ferrari's were not V12's??
I agree they also looked to Lancia and Jano, but many Ferrari's from the 1950's had de Dion. If you look only at the concept the Alfa/Lancia de Dion are alot alike, but they are very different designs. Your right about the common ground of all Italian cars from that era. I think Ferrari also did things that Alfa did. The Ferrari timing for the introduction of its 4 cylinder race/street units were very close to the 1900 intro. Ofcourse Ferrari was a limited production car maker and Alfa was looking to mass produce more.
A few last points, Ferrari and Chiti designed a V6 that was closer to the Alfa Busso V6 in the early 1960's. The same people designed cars for all the Italian makers. Even in modern times Alfa Corse borrowed Ferrari engineers to help with their touring competitione cars. FIAT is all one big happy family.
Last edited by F1 Tommy; 06-11-2012 at 07:26 AM.
|
06-11-2012, 03:42 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 6,274
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by F1 Tommy
And Alfa's are and always were like high production baby Ferrari's, but with 10 year old Ferrari technology . |
This is the comment I have a problem with. I hate Alfa Romeos (who existed long before Ferrari) being referred to as baby Ferraris. They are not and have nothing to do with Ferrari designs. Alfa Romeo, before FIAT, have always stood proudly by themselves. They never copied Ferrari designs, etc.
Nobody will call Alfa Romeo's that share Mazda parts, baby Mazdas ... get my point now? .
Pete
__________________
ps: Remember it's all just opinions
'71 1750 Series 2 GTV: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?p=208078
Last edited by PSk; 06-11-2012 at 03:48 PM.
|
06-11-2012, 03:46 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Sydney Australia
Posts: 6,274
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MALDI
Counter example: the transaxle series of Alfas are really updated Lancia Aurelias: 60 degree V6 engine; transaxle w/ rear mounted clutch; inboard rear brakes; de Dion rear suspension (in later Aurelias); lack of a torque tube. In the early '70s Alfa was clearly looking to the Lancias of the '50s for inspiration.
|
As Alfa Romeo used transaxle designs WAY before Lancia so one could debate the other way around. Do you remember the 8c2900 and the Alfetta F1 car?
Anybody that calls my 1750GTV a baby Ferrari would get a single finger response ...
Yes all manufacturers got influences from each other but that does not mean we should refer to a proud marque like Alfa Romeo as baby Lancia's or Ferrari's (or Mazda's). They have been making great cars since 1910 and contributed significantly to our rich automotive history, they deserve more respect.
Pete
__________________
ps: Remember it's all just opinions
'71 1750 Series 2 GTV: http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?p=208078
Last edited by PSk; 06-11-2012 at 03:48 PM.
|
| Thread Tools |
|
|
| Display Modes |
 Linear Mode
|
Posting Rules
|
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is Off
|
|
|
|
|
