Marchionne: FIAT No longer an Italian Compay

[Alfisto Steve]

The Ghost of Alfas past is something that has past. Whether we like it or not we are in the 21st century. Mr Marchionne's play book is the current game in town so we can only hope for the best.

[2000 touring sp]

You are completely right Alfisto Steve.
But the participant of this forum, are living for the Ghost.
We in Europe, can get one of the new Lancia/Chrysler, just to show that one is living in the real world.
You have already accepted the real world, with a Dodge, just to collect parts for the Ghost.
In the real world we all want to be betrayed.

[South Africa]

It depends at how you view this whole scenario.

In my opinion owning a 1929 Alfa Romeo 6C 1750 - maybe by ZAGATO or a 1937 Alfa Romeo 2900 BB must be close to the ultimate in motoring experience for those eras. Alfa Romeo was at the top of 'their game'.

In the 1960's Alfa Romeo was competing successfully with PORSCHE -where is Alfa Romeo now?

In the 1970's Alfa Romeo competed successfully with BMW - where is BMW now?

In the 1980's and 1990's how many Europeans would buy an Alfa Romeo?

What of the 2000 to 2010 era?

What about America buyers?

The Roman Empire came and went, the British Empire came and went. The Alfa Romeo Empire came in the early 1920's where is it now?

Natural life cycles of companies? Leadership choices?

What difference can we make?

Only my $0.001 worth.

[2000 touring sp]

I don't disagree South Africa.
There is a potential of app.200.000 buyers world wide for Alfa Romeo car pr year.
Its impossible to run a full assorted Automobile production, wit such small potential.
So of course they is forced to adopt.
Using the potential from the ghost time( before 1987) is without value.As they was almost closed at that time, and nobody would pay anything for the Alfa Romeo Name.
The question is have Fiat is able to keep the 200.000 Alfaisti, and attasch new buyers.
Then they are looking at the potential in the States and China.
But isn't that enough.
Bach in the 70 ties, the Italian state paid Alfa Romeo a bonus of 1000 US$ pr car exported. Will they support in the same way for a car produced outside Italy
My daily car is a Fiat-Alfa

[F1 Tommy]

I agree with you that it won't be like old times, but we should get a few respectible Alfa Romeo's if FIAT does it right. FIAT did put the Busso engines in Lancia's(hell they put Ferrari engines in Lancia Theme's), so sharing has happened before and will happen again I am affraid. It is how much they share that will make or break Alfa. Some of the new Chrysler engine designs are very good. I understand even Ferrari took one of the Chrysler proposed engine designs to possibly use in a small Maserati sedan. FIAT will have to put alot of effort into Alfa for this to work. I think we will see some very nice Alfa's over the next few years. Will it save Alfa?? We will have to wait and see if it works.

By the way, this new 4C 1750 alloy turbo engine being used in the CUV and 4C will be the most powerful street engines ever offered by Alfa Romeo at 300hp.(other than the new Alfa Romeo 8C) The fact that they built an all new alloy turbo motor just for Alfa is a very good sign to me that we will begin to like what they are doing to Alfa. I hope they also make an all new Alfa only alloy V6 motor next.

Tom Tanner/Ferrari Expo 2013-Chicago March 2013

[D&SW]

Anyone familiar with FTP? (Fiat Powertrain Technologies) apparently these folks are no slouch in the engineering dept.

I guess they did the DDCT (Dual dry clutch Trans) and have the Multi air to their credit.
So they can produce pretty good drivetrain stuff.

Personally I think Marchionne is "on the hook" to do something to differentiate Alfa from the rest of the pack. What is his alternative? another "me-too" semi sport/semi-luxury "saloon" to use a Brit term? or create a high value, well priced sport sedan/coupe/spider that has some guts and glory and will a leader in some major ways?
My bet is on the latter

[MotorCityDuetto]

Marchionne goes beyond finance into choosing designs. He does not try to design cars, but will reject what he does not believe will sell. He has also made constant noises regarding the cost of manufacturing in Italy. Some of his comments are for political consumption, others might be factual because there is some capacity remaining in U.S. and Canada assembly plants, but not enough to build the Fiat and Alfa line-ups. Even a Ford is no longer a Ford by traditional standards. The days of Henry Ford's "vertical integration" (a car completely manufactured and assembled at the Rouge Plant) are long past.
Once Fiat owns 100 percent of Chrysler (an intent recently announced), then Auburn Hills could become the defacto headquarters of Fiat. He already spends nine months of the year at Chrysler headquarters.

Many parts are shared by all auto companies because they greatly reduced the number of suppliers. One bad part from Johnson Controls, Lear, any number of suppliers, will send a chill to throughout half the industry. There will be no true Alfas, Lancias, Chryslers, etc. Major characteristics of each marque can be retained, and that we can hope for.

[2000 touring sp]

MotorCityDuetto
"Marchionne goes beyond finance into choosing designs"
It has always been so. The biggest fault in design, i think, it still is the Ford Edsel, i think.
"He has also made constant noises regarding the cost of manufacturing in Italy"
Yes he is making a lot of political statement. He is ,or have been President of the European car manufactures organization. And the general problems in Italy does not help Fiat .
"others might be factual because there is some capacity remaining in U.S." Don't forget the Fiat plants in south America
"The days of Henry Ford's "vertical integration" It has long been dead. In Europe its Bosch that is the big subs player.Fiat developed the common rail system, and sold it to Bosch.
"Once Fiat owns 100 percent of Chrysler (an intent recently announced), then Auburn Hills could become the defacto headquarters of Fiat."
I do fully agree. Primarily because, its a question when we will se financial development in Europe. The States will come first. hence the priority
"There will be no true Alfas, Lancias, Chryslers, etc. Major characteristics of each marque can be retained,"
The future different will be on engines and transmission, and the lay out of the under carriage.That's the way they will make the individual tosh, the buyers are looking for.

D&SW
I do fully agree, i do se Fiat as the trend setter in engine development, where they have the pace.
The DDTC didn't get the most positive respond in the first testing, compared with VW transmission.

One thing that strikes me here in Europe, is the way the PSA and VW is able to different there product. My impression, Fiat has a problem in Marketing. They have problems in making a personal profile on Alfa and Lancia. If compared with Peugeot and Citroen versus VW-Audi-Skoda.Seat. Even a fact that VW is loosing a lot of money on Seat every year, can hardly reach the press.

[D&SW]

Interesting that FIAT now admits that selling the "common rail" technology was huge mistake.... When you make strictly financial decisions with no "vision" you create no future.

FIAT has said it will not sell the "Multi-air" technology; good for them. Marchionne has refused to sell the one potential crown jewel (Alfa)...good for him.

Chrylser will be the cash cow to provide development money. Maybe Alfa has a chance, after all.

[dave_fonz_164]

Marchionne, like any good Italian-Canadian born to immigrants understands the importance of the brand and the Italia cachet Fiat products have. He is also fully aware of the Italian bureaucratic system and the unions which hamper it's competiteveness on a global stage.

Fiat is selling close to 40,000 units per year in North America, while remaining Italian in it's design and feel. The car is assembled in Mexico and shipped to Detroit. This is the world we live in today.

I can understand his willingness to bring more of his operations in America as the American mentality and business acumen is far more flexible and efficient than it is in Italy.

And let's not forget that branding and marketing is huge!.....if the product is great and has good quality followed by marketing which is consistent, you can sell anything.

For heavens sake, the same chassis that is found under the Phateon is the same used on the A8 and Bentley's, I don't see anyone complaining about that?

Or what about the 2.0TFSI which can be had in a Golf, Jetta, Passat, A4, TT, Seat, Skoda and many more?

People constantly elevate VAG engineering and German engineering, when in reality, they are so similar and share so many parts with eachother. That's what you call 20-30 years of successful marketing and branding, convincing the consumer that German engineering is far superior.

[D&SW]

Marchionne has repeatedly noted the productivity of American workers. This is the case for producing Alfas in America vs production in Italy. And by America I think we need to note that he's referring to North American plants including Mexico and Canada. It looks like all these assets will be called upon.

And....For all the bashing of unions that some political persuasions do, there has to be recognition that American workers get it done better than in many countries.

[lambazjk]

nothing else needs

[Del]

"Have can a Chrysler designed engine, modified by Fiat and produced in Italy, ever be an Alfa engine"

Yes, I believe so, as Fiat/Alfa can do a fair amount with their engine expertise. That new Chrysler v-6 is a better engine than the 24v Alfa v-6 in basic design, and with a few changes, probably mostly breathing, and cosmetic, it would be as good if not better than what Alfa would have produced by themselves.

[2000 touring sp]

Financial results for Fiat group for the first quarter was 379 million Euros.
The result without Chrysler was a loss of 273 million Euros.
I think the figures speak for them selves
::ITALIASPEED::

[Vsix]

yes It speaks that Mr Marchionne havent invested at all in Europe in many years.