12-06-2005, 10:59 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 639
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The same exact debate is going on at the Pelican link, just farther down the road than where we are.
http://forums.pelicanparts.com/showt...hreadid=250985
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Mike Gilbert
1967 1600 Spider
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12-06-2005, 11:05 PM
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Admin
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Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Santa Clarita, CA
Posts: 4,673
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Originally Posted by jrclem
"Do you think that it would be fair for another vendor to post right below me and say well Ill sell them to you for cheaper."
How about if a long time BBer chimes in and points out that he has just bought the same item for less $ from his favorite (reputable and reliable) vendor for less money...?
Isn't that one of the reasons we're all here? To get just that sort of information? How would you react to such a (non-vendor) posting?
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12-06-2005, 11:11 PM
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Alfa Poor in KY
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Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Mount Sterling, KY
Posts: 3,811
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Wow......difficult to decide one way or the other. I, like Bob see valid points on both sides of the fence on this one and wouldn't have a clue as to where to draw the line in the "sand".
I think selling items is great.....but may be a bigger PITA than maintaining the board ever was. Proverbial out of the frying pan and into the fire. If you do it.....I think you would serve yourself better by focusing on rare performance items...rather than trying to stock water pumps and radiator hoses and every other little part. You want something that you can at least put a margin on to meet your goal of supplementing the board's financial pot. And I would guess the margin on a water pump vs. the margin on the stainless exhaust would be like pebbles to mountains respectively. Plus....why try to compete with the catalog houses when you can essentially have the entire performance market (which is poorly provided for by our normal US suppliers). Options for performance braking, performance engine parts beyond a 10.4 piston set  , real engine management, performance suspensions, racing setups, etc.
I think limiting people like Uri or Randy (alfa-of corse) from selling their unique items is a mistake. When Uri comes to the board with overflow bottles that no one has....that is the information I am wanting to hear. Same with Randy...or anyone else listing classifieds. We are all looking for little pieces here and there. And its a service to the board and adds value to the board when they do bring those items to our attention. Maybe incorporate these items like Uri's cool ultra rare items and Randy's bumper brackets or NOS items as specials items in your parts list.
But, IAP, Centerline, Vicks, Difatta's, etc....that have a brick and mortar business built around selling parts should not advertise on the Alfabb if they are not going to support the Alfabb. But I don't hear them advertising specials, etc. here now and never have. Ultimately, all these suppliers should be supporting the Alfabb. Why are they not??????
Does this mean that Joe can't say...hey we got that widget, in a discussion about where can I get this widget.....I say no. Joe is just an employee for Centerline...not the owner. He should be able to say that as he is answering a post and providing info thats helping another guy out. Someone else with no affiliation may chime in and say IAP. Another helper may say OKP. How do we draw the line between provinding information and advertising for a parts supplier?
And Joe is a knowledgable contributor and valued member of the Alfabb. At one point I mentioned I was looking for a factory radio. A week later, it arrived at my house from Joe, with Joe refusing to even let me pay for shipping. That is the kind of guy he is. He is an enthusiast....not a Centerline rep on this board. Its not like he is trolling for a post to say we got this at centerline. So this to me is the hard place to draw a line in the sand. I certainly wouldn't like the ideal if it alienates Joe, and other folk like him. And don't think...well John is a fan of Centerline. Here is a story why not. A few years ago...the owner of Centerline pi$$ed me off royally. I called for some jets on the webers. He asked where I got the webers. They really were a previous owner installed shankle setup...but I thought why do you even care where they came from? So I said IAP. The grand a$$ himself told me to go buy my jets from them as well. I swore that day that Centerline could kiss my....well you know my temper  ...and I would never buy another thing from them again. That was fact until I met Joe through this board. I personally cannot stand Centerline....but I like Joe for all he contributes. I will check with Joe if I need something, just because he is Joe from Alfabb. If Joe doesn't pick up the phone at Centerline when I call...I won't buy from them and they get the dial tone.
With this change in vendor policy you are proposing...I am just wondering if you have seen activity from vendors up to now that concerns you????? I am wondering if this change is due to some specific event?
I would also be curious as to how donations are comparing to costs in operating the BB? Is the BB in the black or in the red....excluding any money you are contributing? You shouldn't be putting your money into this board. You already invest your time. It would be ridiculous for you to be spending your money as well. Certainly, people on this board need to step up to the plate on a regular basis. Ever thought about identifying those who do contribute with an icon or something to "shame" others to contribute?
When you did the give away in association with donations, how did that work out?
Well...enough of my long winded BS. I guess I sit back and wait to hear the outcome.
Best Regards,
John M
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1978 AR Spider Veloce 2000.....the first and still here
1984 AR Spider Veloce............the second & gone to the parts bin
1992 AR Spider Veloce............the third and still here
1991 AR 164L........................traded on the SS
1965 AR Sprint Speciale..........in boxes.
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12-07-2005, 12:22 AM
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compratore di alfa
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 4,859
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by universible
OH MY FREAKING GOODNESS...you people should be ashamed...nothing I've seen so far gives any reason for this bullschitt attitude people are displaying here...I say you have a problem with this stuff, go back to the alfadigest. Freaks....
Sorry, but damn, read yours posts people, give Simon a break...this isn't easy running a forum like this, and a lot of times its not fun. I've known quite a few people that have done it. Give him the benefit of the doubt and maybe try working to make it more of what you want.
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Simon, you don't really have to defend yourself. This is your bb(castle). You are the King(sorry, i just got done reading Le Morte D'Arthur).
It's quite annoying when were having a technical discussion and someone offers "information" only to benefit themselves and create business. You can probably look at their entire posting history and 99.9% will be free advertisement that they got from the bulletin board. To me, it sounds like what a leach does.
It's too bad that it had to come to this and no money was donated by the venders unless it benefitted themselves (i.e. a raffle). I've already looked at the catalog and a lot of the things I see are what I would buy regularly. I just hope to see more 164 and spider parts 
Anyway, I have a birthday to enjoy, so I will get off the soapbox; Simon, good on you! I think this is a smart move and you have my support.
Cheers.
PS- I work at Sears 
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12-07-2005, 12:32 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 2,754
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by smestas
Ok here is a scenario.
Say there is a cool thread going on about center support bearings and how they should be replace. As the BB forum and store admin I chime in and say hey center support bearings are on sale for XXXX. Do yo think that it would be fair for another vendor to post right below me and say well Ill sell them to you for cheaper. While this might be good for the few who get a good deal it would overall not be good for the site.
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#1: "As the BB forum and store admin": So far, you were the AlfaBB admin. This seems to have changed this morning. To refresh your memory -- if necessary -- your expertise so far has been "internet development, technical consulting, project management and much more" (see this or, if you want a more persistent view, take it from what's stored in the Wayback machine.
#2: "Center support bearings are on sale": AlfaBB didn't start as a parts supplier. AlfaBB store has zero credibility in advising potential buyers about the right parts. So, if price is the only differentiator, you'll lose to China the same way Alfa lost to Japan in the '70s.
I don't mean to pi$$ in your cereal, Simon -- but I've seen and been involved with several Internet businesses with various degrees of success. It appears that you don't know or appreciate what AlfaBB is or has become. Getting into "Me, too" businesses -- no matter whether as web designer or parts supplier is not a winning strategy.
One of the core problems is that you're sending mixed messages. For example, you state here that "If AlfaBB fizzles out in three years that’s fine but I’m not going to continue to drain my kids college fund to keep it up so others can have a FREE ride" and you say here here "a subscription based model is out of the question". OK. People are free to change their minds. But markets are NEVER wrong. While you may consider yourself "the owner" of AlfaBB, you should not forget that the members of AlfaBB have a say in its future, too. I think the net result (or the core message) is that the future of AlfaBB is uncertain, at best -- and I'm guessing that, tonight, many members will be thinking about what's next or what Plan B might be...
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Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (apart)
'65 2600 SZ (resto project)
Last edited by tubut; 12-07-2005 at 12:41 AM.
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12-07-2005, 12:55 AM
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compratore di alfa
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 4,859
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tubut
...One of the core problems is that you're sending mixed messages. For example, you state here that "If AlfaBB fizzles out in three years that’s fine but I’m not going to continue to drain my kids college fund to keep it up so others can have a FREE ride" and you say here here "a subscription based model is out of the question". OK. People are free to change their minds. But markets are NEVER wrong. While you may consider yourself "the owner" of AlfaBB, you should not forget that the members of AlfaBB have a say in its future, too. I think the net result (or the core message) is that the future of AlfaBB is uncertain, at best -- and I'm guessing that, tonight, many members will be thinking about what's next or what Plan B might be... |
I can safely say that I for one, never(for the exception of one time) bought anything from the parts vendors that advertised freely on Alfabb. The soul reason is I live less than half an hour from 3 Alfa parts vendors. Not to mention the prices were way more competitive than most of the vendors online. I have seen alfabbparts' prices and quite pleased. They are definitely reasonable.
** - Free to subscribe to and get information from, not free to run!
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12-07-2005, 01:05 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 2,754
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Originally Posted by elite38868
To the contrary, though we contribute to Alfabb (by posting not paying), we technically do not have any say in this. If this site was a paid subscription, yeah, I could see having a say or maybe a vote on this, but this website is Free.
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Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (apart)
'65 2600 SZ (resto project)
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12-07-2005, 01:15 AM
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compratore di alfa
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 4,859
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by tubut
WRONG. Your words are YOUR words. They don't belong to anybody else (or absolve you of any liability) for the fact that you posted them somewhere, whether for a fee or not. Hello, 1st amendment -- or the 5th, for what its worth???
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LOL. The above has absolutely nothing to do with what this issue is about. Yes, your words belong to YOU. But, what does that have to do with having a weighted "say" in the runnings of alfabb?
PS- Since when did CANADA adopt the U.S. constitution amendment by amendment?
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12-07-2005, 01:38 AM
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Senior Member
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 2,754
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by elite38868
PS- Since when did CANADA adopt the U.S. constitution amendment by amendment?
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As for...
Quote:
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Originally Posted by elite38868
The above has absolutely nothing to do with what this issue is about. Yes, your words belong to YOU. But, what does that have to do with having a weighted "say" in the runnings of alfabb?
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In my opinion, it is the core issue. From free flow of information, we were advised that there has been a sudden shift in which we were advised that "politically correct" speak no longer involves vendors who offer products that are also available in the AlfaBB store. And, what to some degree makes me mad about the tables being turned in such a way is, that words that were written or said before the new party politics came into play now get a different meaning -- or wouldn't have been said or written if such intentions were clear from the beginning.
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Ruedi
'63 2600 Touring Spider (apart)
'65 2600 SZ (resto project)
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12-07-2005, 01:43 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 313
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by John M
I think limiting people like Uri or Randy (alfa-of corse) from selling their unique items is a mistake. When Uri comes to the board with overflow bottles that no one has....that is the information I am wanting to hear. Same with Randy...or anyone else listing classifieds. We are all looking for little pieces here and there. And its a service to the board and adds value to the board when they do bring those items to our attention. Maybe incorporate these items like Uri's cool ultra rare items and Randy's bumper brackets or NOS items as specials items in your parts list.
But, IAP, Centerline, Vicks, Difatta's, etc....that have a brick and mortar business built around selling parts should not advertise on the Alfabb if they are not going to support the Alfabb. But I don't hear them advertising specials, etc. here now and never have. Ultimately, all these suppliers should be supporting the Alfabb. Why are they not??????
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I also am in other online communities, and one very near and dear to my heart has been embroiled in a problem very close to one you could encounter. Simon, what if something should happen between between a customer and you the vendor? What if your credibility as a vendor was called into question here on the boards? Could you silence that criticism? Could you censor another's comments in the interest of your own business and the survival of the board? This situation may come up at some point. Business is business, and although 99.9% percent of customer's are usually happy that .01% is a REALLY loud crowd. The ethical choice you may have to make might sour some people.
Just playing devil's advocate here, but what if you took orders on say six Superflow exhaust setups and people paid you knowing the stuff would come in a month or so. You spend that money upgrading the site and paying someone to do some site maintenance (instead of yourself). It's time to enjoy a short holiday too--you have earned it. Now Superflow doesn't need payment in full until the parts are ready to ship, they are a little behind schedule and the site repairs have cost a little more than originally budgeted. Soon a few customers are grumbling about when they will get their setups.
One month later, and Superflow calls to say the setups are ready, but the original money paid to you has dwindled. No problem people will be buying more stuff surely. Only it's winter, after Christmas, and the money isn't coming, you will have to use either your own money, or the money of new orders you hope will come. A few weeks pass. Meantime, one of the grumblers has a friend at Superflow and he finds out that his exhaust setup has been ready to ship for two months, but the vendor (you) hasn't paid. Rather than handling it discretely, he airs his grievance on the AlfaBB. All hell will break loose for a little while. Things get settled quickly though as you use your credit card to pay for the orders, but the image of your business and the BB is tarnished.
This really happened recently, only substitute mufflers for drums. Thank the gods the BB I'm on wasn't affiliated with the vendor, who sold 90% of his sales through contacts on the board. Best of luck to you, but trust, man TRUST is a hard thing to win and an easy thing to lose. Please be careful and best of luck to you.
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74 Berlina (first car--miss her)
94 164 LS (gone too)
83 Spider (alas, gone)
74 GTV (still have conjugal visits at least)
1987 Milano Verde (now in good hands)
Last edited by Storsav; 12-07-2005 at 01:46 AM.
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12-07-2005, 01:45 AM
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compratore di alfa
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Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 4,859
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Ruedi,
I can hear where you're coming from, but you have acknowledge that many vendors were taking advantage of this wonderful source and not giving credit where it it due. We can still access their websites for parts via this bb, but on the sticky labeled Parts Suppliers.
What's wrong with that?
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12-07-2005, 02:14 AM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Posts: 935
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