How Fast is Your Alfa?

[Gary Williams]

How fast is your Alfa?

A number of threads on the BB contain boasts about this Spider taking a Beemer, that GTV stomping a WRX, and similar flights of fancy.

After following my son and his wife in their ’74 GTV on a trip from Los Altos to California’s Half Moon Bay and back, I began to think more seriously about the question posed above.

My son’s car has a stock 2L motor. Mine has a pumped 2L that is putting out about 165 flywheel horsepower. It’s a strong motor, as Ted will attest after I blew past him at one point.

But, and this is a key point, I flew past him so quickly, in part, because he didn’t know I was going to pass. As soon as I got around him and backed off a bit, he quickly caught me. Not long ago, when my new motor was down on power due to a couple of problems now solved, I was trailing a friend in his A4 Audi, the one with twin turbos. I sat on his bumper through some tight turns. When we hit a straight he took off like I was parked. As soon as my brain’s “Hey, catch him!” reached my foot, I began to catch up.

Catch up? How, you might ask? My guess is that seeing me disappear in the mirror, Richard eased off slightly. Just as I eased off slightly after passing Ted. What to Richard was an act of kindness felt to me like an amazing display of Alfa speed.

So, back to the point of this thread. When guys who drive old Alfas brag about beating this modern sedan or that modern sports car – besides not understanding why being faster matters in the grand scheme of things -- I wonder what was going on in the car that should have won (which is usually not the Alfa).

The most obvious question is this: Is this a fish story? You know, as in my fish was bigger than your fish (based on desire rather than the tail of the tape). Other questions that come to mind are: Did the other guy know they were racing? Did they both decide to race at the same time? And, who backed off the gas first?

My GTV will probably do 0-60 in 7.5 seconds, in its current hot-rod form. That’s just a guess … or a hope. When new and stock a good time was probably 10.5 seconds. Looking at some old driving tests, I found that a ’66 Duetto went at 0-60 in 11 seconds. 1750 Berlinas were tested in the range of 10.2 to 11. A 200hp 164 got to 60 in 7.6 seconds.

Now compare these: ’68 BMW 2002, 11.3 secs; Acura, 6.2 to 8.9 secs; Audi, 6.7 to 9.6 secs; BMW 3 series cars, 6.2 to 9.6 secs; 1998 Camaro Z28, 5.2 secs; Big Fat Chrysler 300C, 5.6 secs; garden variety Mustang GT, 5.5 secs; 1999 Civic SI, 7.2 secs; 2001 Miata, 8.1 secs; 1992 Maxima SE, 7.3 secs; your father’s 1994 Olds 88, 8 secs; 1991 Saturn Coupe, 8.6 secs; 1991 VW GT, 8.4 secs; 2004 VW GTI, 6.5 secs.

Which one on this list will your Spider out drag? Maybe the equally aging 2002. Certainly not a late-model VW, Honda, Saturn, or other common sedan. And don’t even think about trying to race the luxo-barge SUV in the lane next to you if you’re on a straight road.

I don’t know about you, but I don’t drive the GTV to get a leg up on my neighbor or the guy in the next lane. I drive it because it is just plain fun. When we were on a winding mountain road between Half Moon Bay and Palo Alto, stuck behind slow moving traffic, I had to work to stay awake. But when we got clear and the two red GTVs took off, it was a pretty moving picture of what old classics do best.

We set a brisk pace through one tight turn after another, drivers and cars working together in a way that modern cars don’t allow. That’s why I drive the Alfa, not to beat some kid in a Honda from one stop light to the other. Oh, I used to do that, but I had a V-8 Plymouth back then ... and Honda was just known (in the U.S.) for its small motorcycles.

[universible]

Well..to be fair, I would have passed the terrified drive in the car in front of me sooner, but heard you wind up...by then it was too late, so I didn't finish pulling out in front of you

I have always thought that it doesn't matter how FAST your car is, just how FAST you were willing to drive it. As in, how far are you willing to push your investment, endanger those around you and well, break the law There have been times where I knew I had guys in cars much faster than mine (talking about my old Verde) simply because they didn't have it in them to push their cars fast enough. It gets beyond stupid at that point.

I completely agree, I love the GTV not because its fast...more because it puts a smile on my face when I get the time to get out and drive it. Can't say that for the Taurus I drive for work...hahaha....though it has cool flashy lights and makes nifty sounds

[Hooligan]

I'm currently Alfa-less (just a newbie looking for an S3 Spider!), but I am not expecting high flat-out performance levels. My current vehicle (and future Alfa tow rig) is a 2004 Grand Cherokee high-output V8 and it is said to run the 0-60 in a little under 7. I think if I had it parked next to my future S3 Spider and I asked my less-knowledged friends which they thought was faster, they'd never guess it would be the SUV!

Cars have gotten dramatically faster in the last few years... 10 years ago it was acceptable for a $30,000 US sports sedan to run to 60 in about 8.5 seconds. Today it's expected that the 2005 version of that sedan will run it in 6.5... at slowest!

[81gtv6]

Your car is only as fast as the driver is.

[AlfaEric]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 81gtv6 Your car is only as fast as the driver is.

[jess]

Our alfas are definitely not quite in the same league with today's new cars, many come standard with 250-400 horses. Many with much more sophisticated suspention than our "old" alfas do.

Frankly, i don't think our Alfas are that fast, and the track results also shows. There are many cars with much more horses and very decent handling with today's technology.

On the other hand, most Alfa drivers are capable of hanging with if not passing many of the new kids in their riced up or fancy high tech cars for that most Alfa drivers are enthusiast and take time to learn and know their Alfa better. So in the mountain roads where Alfas gliding thru corners comfortably, the other "high performance" cars might not be driven accordingly, thus being passed by our "oldie" Alfas.

I bet when driven "correctly" (and I emphasis on correctly), those "high performance" cars will leave our Alfas in their rear view mirrors.

It does feel good hanging or beating those "high performance" machines when you and your alfa work in harmony and I think that's when we brag about our advantures.

keep on brag'n know to me, it's just historical evidences when Alfa and it's owner are being in harmony.

Jess <-- slow lane

[Bill]

Times and Speeds I have achieved:

0-60mph: 9.0 seconds
1/8 mile drag: 8.1 sec. 50mph
Top speed on flat road no wind: 108 mph @ 7,000 rpm
Top speed downhill w/25mph tail wind: 112 mph @ 6,700rpm
(all speeds and times with top DOWN of course).
Fastest speed thru 20mph corner: 75mph
Hotest car passed on curve: Honda 2000

Most fun: Passing, on the outside, after being passed by them going up the bridge, two ricers racing each other around a downhill ,off-camber, 120 deg. bridge exit, then having them pull up on either side of my stopped-for-the-light-self and yell out: "What the f--k is that old fart?"
My Response: "The paddle that just spanked your a**, young turd".

Smiles to the mile: countless ..

[nicke]

My GTV6 is fast enough to scare/fight off M3's (probably driven badly) in off camber tightening radius turns, fast enough to catch a Ferrari 355 that I was following (on twisty-turny b-roads) after a milk truck cut me off, probably the same scenario as above... Fast enough to cruise at 105-115mph for about 1/2 an hour at NY rt17 before I realized that it was a bad idea, but way too much fun... (as soon as I slowed down to about 80, there was the state trooper...) But more than anything, no other car makes me as happy behind the wheel, and I've been driving Red '84 GTV6's on and off since 1986...

And I can't wait to get my '69-105 coupe ready so I can see what that one will do...

[PSk]

Alfa's have never been fast in the drag race sense ... even Ferraris have not been the king in that area.

Where Alfa's are efficient and thus fast is in the track stuff and 2nd/3rd gear secondary type roads.

Anybody that thinks their Alfa (of any type ... even probably a T33/2) spanked a Subaru WRX is dreaming ... and this is why street racing simply does not work.

If you have bought your Alfa to be the king of street racing ... er, sorry you have bought the wrong car and anyway should look hard at yourself and er, mature .

Technology marches on and the classic Alfa's were never the fastest when they were new (unless you go right back to the 30's ...), thus why would they be the fastest now? ... and the proof of this is how slow the modern Alfas are.

I've got much more important things to worry about ...
Pete

Granted my car is not stock... but I would not go so far to say anyone would be dreaming. Ask the drivers of these cars, just to name a few, who bought the wrong car!

Viper GTS... Freeway from 65, lifted at ~140 and had 2+ car lengths on him. When he caught up he gave me a thumbs up and a smile.
BMW Z8... Stoplight start. Even up to 30, grabbed second and was gone. No reaction from the driver.
Camaro SS... 2nd gear start. By the time I grabbed third it was 2 car lengths. 2 thumbs up from the driver and girlfreind and a "what is it?"
WTX STi... Freeway from 65. I was behind him and did not apply throttle until I saw the puff's of black smoke from his exhaust. Without shifting down to 4th I applied full throttle and drove on by. No contest. Head light flash.

Put some modern components on an Alfa motor to equal the playing field and you may be surprised what tricks she can still do!

[PSk]

I have a very low opinion of anybody that takes street racing too seriously .

Yeah I have fun on the road and have non-seriously raced somebody up to say 60mph ... but any further and you are simply endangering other road users.

If caught racing in Australia ... loose car, simple as that!! and I support this attitude from the police. There are plenty of tracks and drag strips, etc.

Come on mate, think of the babies and others univolved who just want to get from A to B safely.

Pete
ps: And I do not care how many races you think you have won ... the other driver was simply more mature!

[WithanF]

My stock 93 Spider can't get out of its own way. That said, I do love two lane exits. That's where I notice I'm passing everyone - not because I'm racing, it is just unnecessary to slow down much.

[Gary Williams]

Because I started the thread and mentioned driving "briskly" on mountain roads, some of the ensuing posts are causing me to clarify. At no time were Ted or I driving at dangerous speeds. The fact that my wife (his Mom) was in one car and his wife in the other meant we didn't have to look far for reasons not to be stupid.

When I come up on certain drivers (always male), the noisy, low red Alfa seems to challenge their manhood. I don't have to see the driver; it's obvious from the way the vehicle suddenly comes alive. It's like their car's Cialis just kicked in. I make it a point to let them accelerate into the distance. They feel cool and I get a laugh. We both win.

Two incidents caused me to mature. One was when a neighbor's kid tried to follow me around a corner and ended up bending the suspension of his Daddy's new BMW. Not long after, on a winding road, I watched the rear view mirror in horror as a Volvo loaded with young guys slid sideways onto the dirt shoulder while trying to follow me around the turn. The driver caught it just in time, but not without way too much drama.

I don't want to be the encouragement for someone's driving disaster, so anyone wanting to challenge my little car will have to wait until I get it on the track.

[joecautela]

I hear what your saying about racing on public roads and you are right...but..it is an awful lot of fun when I"m blasting along in the mountains and come up on another like me (and I fondly recall a TR250 in Vermont) and we have an open mountain road and let it hang out. That's where my car lives!, 2nd- 4th right around redline, letting the *** hang and the pipe just barking!. And yes I've gotten my speeding ticket(s) and warnings, but the cops pretty much understand too and don't look too close. What I'm trying to say is there is a time and place for everything and a twisty section from Tupper Lake to Lake George on a full tilt is a glorius thing. But that is also a limited access hardly inhabited stretch. As for off the line..weellll.. but with this 3:60 gear now 3rd and 4th at 6500 is REALLY FAST..way over 100. I have not topped out in 4th or 5th yet on a flat stretch but hope to this wkend on another blast up north, Joe

Ha-ha-ha. Come on guys, you take yourself too seriously!

You never raced anyone on the street? Ever?

Never exceeded the speed limit? Even a little?

Rolled through a stop sign?

What's the title of this thread?

Blew past who so quickly? How quickly?

Oh... my holier-than-thou friends Puh-lease...

Well... I smoke it but never inhaled! lol