How Fast is Your Alfa?

[Alex Csank]

I'll admit that there are times when I exceed the posted speed limit...ummm, better make that ALWAYS!!

time to p.o. some people, I have seen a wrx get smaller and smaller in my rear view mirror, why, cause my motor has been worked over, or the suspension, nope- cause the WRX driver had deep pockets and not a lot of skill, upshift too soon in a WRX and it falls flat on its face, and what a car can do in a corner and what a driver can do are 2 different things, in the 70's it was Porsche and trailing throttle oversteer that keep most owners from ever driving fast in any thing other than a straight line. almost anyone can and will outrun an Alfa in a straight line, WRX or redneck in a pickup who can hold you to 35 in the twisty bits and floor it at each straight. that's already been discussed, this is the offensive part, owning an Alfa doesn't mean your a fast or quick driver, if your Alfa can't do what other Alfa's do, it doesn't mean the owners are engaging in flights of fancy or smoking dope, maybe it means you need to take some classes or just accept that your driving skills aren't up to it, easiest way to tell, Do you use these excuses, your Alfa is to nice, too expensive, it's a classic, or it's too hard to get serviced, to be "beating" if your Alfa puts out 165 hp at the flywheel in a car that hits 2200 lbs and you can't deal with a wrx- 225 hp and 3400 lbs, admit your not a driver and stop inferring that Alfa drivers that do "drive" are lying, because whatever term your using that is what your saying, right. oh and FYI, road and track used 5500 rpm shift points when testing 2000 Alfa's, earlier models were tested using the lowest shift points recommended by the factory, testers that used higher shift points got 0-60 in 9.0 for a 2000 GTV, and Duetto's shifted at 7000 posted 0-60 in 8.7

[John M]

You take your Alfa down a curvy road, it'll make you proud. You get in a drag race with a soccer mom in her Grand Caravan from stop light to stop light.....you just might find yourself on the loosing end with head hung in shame.

So needless to say...I enjoy my Alfas with a little get up and go so I can take Ms Soccer Mom.

Best Regards,
John M

[GriffithBuilt]

as long as that gal isn't in a voyager or caravan turbo. she'll be puttin the smack down.

jason

[jess]

hun? street racing? who said about street racing, we are talking about track results here weren't we?

I did..

jess

[elite38868]

Quote:

Originally Posted by aralfa8589 Frankly, I have never explored the limits of my 3 Alfas on the road- there simply is'nt enough room. They all do pretty well though. My son's E46 M3 gives me a reality check. Jeff Lang

[onethumb]

Frankly, the answer is now what it always has been. If you want serious power, drop a blower on the darn thing and hold on. Ok, a turbo works too, but the point is that force-feeding an engine will outperform anything else you can think of in a straight line. If you're not going straight, then the driver is probably the main ingredient--although I would argue that with a Ferrari 550, I'd beat any modified GTV around a track. Or any modified Alfa for that matter. My track skill might as well be zero, but with a car like that..well...
Point being that we don't drive these things for the idea that we can outdrag or outrace someone....they are art moving, they are a working object of beauty, a moving and breathing surreal image of speed and driving. If we wanted to win a drag race, we'd all buy some modern 5.4L v8 and pump nitrous in it. An Alfa is fast simply by standing still. How many other cars can be that?


Ok, I've had a bit of Sake tonite----I'll stop now

[Gary Williams]

Oh my. I think Alfa-Off-Corse just told me off. Most, if not all, of his/her comments seem to be directed squarely at me, yet I have no clue who this person is, nor can I tell what got his or her shorts in such a knot. I thought we were having a friendly discussion here.

If you, oh nameless poster, will reread what I wrote to start this thread, you'll see that the focus was on straight-line performance, as in 0-60. The magazines I took my data from generally apply common test methods that allow us to reliably compare one car's performance with that of another.

Alfas have never been known for straight-line speed, Bonnie, Brian's incredibly fine turbo car, and a few others being the exceptions. On the other hand, few other cars offer the exhilaration that comes from diving into a tight corner with the Alfa and accelerating through it. Seems like we ought to be able to agree on that, at least.

As for where you disagree with me, I'm not really sure. You say yourself that "almost anyone can and will outrun an Alfa in a straight line," which was my point. But then you take off on my driving skill, and the logic for that completely eludes me. I never said anything about on-the-street racing experiences -- winning or losing -- except to explain in a later post that I am careful not to challenge other drivers into following me into corners at speeds they may not be equipped to handle. Perhaps you misunderstood what you read?

You did write that "this is the offensive part, owning an Alfa doesn't mean your a fast or quick driver, if your Alfa can't do what other Alfa's do, it doesn't mean the owners are engaging in flights of fancy or smoking dope, maybe it means you need to take some classes or just accept that your driving skills aren't up to it..."

Where does this come from? Who said owning an Alfa makes the driver quick? Who says my Alfa can't do what other Alfas do? On what basis do you say my driving skills are lacking? You know nothing about how I drive other than what I've shared here. Is it because I don't street-race? Most people would call that maturity.

If you had any clue how many hours I spent in my youth racing various cars and motorcyles at break-neck speeds through the Santa Cruz Mountains, you might join family, friends, and residents of the mountain areas in praising whatever finally brought about that maturity.

[conchgtv]

doesnt matter about speed really, its all about looking good while you get there. if you are important enough, people will wait.

[Bill-Sims]

My '57 Spider has a bit more hp than it came with, thanks to Sperry and Weber. But, I assure you, it can't out-accelerate most mini-vans! In fact, I doubt it could outhandle some of the better handling ones such as a Quest. But which one is fun to drive? That's a gimmie!

As for acceleration, the auto calculator says that given my autocross Milano's 320 hp at the flywheel and 2786 weight without driver, I can do 0-60 in 4 seconds. Is probably about right, as it will spin the Hoosier 285s easily, and acceleration is better than any muscle car I was ever in. This is not a street car, but could be made back into one in a weekend, not counting the decals. Is it more fun than the Giulietta Spider? Not really. The old Spider puts a big smile on my face every time I drive it.

As for street racing, I'm all for jail time.

[ar1750gtv]

A good freind of mine who owns both a 2004 Porsche 911 Carrera S and a 1750 GTV summed it up best. The Alfa cost 1/10th the price of the Porsche and is 90% as much fun. Only on the track does he actually get to experience the 10% additional "fun factor" from the 911. He is a real driving enthusiast and so he can appreciate the little Alfa even comparing it to a modern, more powerful car like the Porsche.

[GriffithBuilt]

It's funny you mention that. My 2004 SAAB 9-3 Aero w/ BSR Stage 1 Chip puts out a great deal of power. I drove both that and my '79 S2 down the same stretch of road today and really got on the gas both times. Alfa vs. Saab on the straight was negligible in terms of a seat of the pants feel. SAAB outhandles the alfa on the twisties hand over fist, but that is MY inability to be comfortable with tossing the alfa around (especially due to its need for shocks and rear suspension bushings). Other than that, the alfa doesn't have a top and the saab will hold four. Sound wise, my SAAB sounds just as mean as the alfa, both being heavily weighted in the 'sound from the hood' department.

Guess which one cost 14x more than the other!

Jason
<ding-dong> Bilstein HD's just arrived!

[75evo]

My Milano 3.0 is pretty decent in terms of speed. It has about 65 wheel bhp and It competes pretty well with some GTV race cars. Just that some of the 105 drivers are better, hehe.

Some official times:

Willow Springs: 140.XX (old engine)
Buttonwillow: 2.08.XX (rebuilt engine)

The goal is to be just as fast as the fastest race GTV out there (excluding the GTA) hehe.

Keep in mind that internally, my 3.0 is VERY MILD. No crazy stuff like 12:1 pistons, forged rods, ported heads, etc. Dyno was at Mustang Ranch (Santa Clara, not the one in Nevada hehe). Suspension only has minor tweaks. The engine should produce more power after the fuel and ignition maps are tweaked. Currently the ignition advance is very retarded.

my shorts are not in a knot, but they have shrunk several sizes, the result of somebody filling my chest waders with cold water, you are the one "casting" doubt on our fish stories, but not the person I meant to offend, not that I want to offend anyone but there are several misconceptions in this thread, and nothing draws flame quicker than an opinion that wasn't meant to, so I just assume it will be along, This is wrx story no 2, (yes I am one of those guys you referred to) ever have some creep pass you on an onramp, charges out into the inside lane far ahead of the merge point and when you are ready to merge he's there to your left, and in some cases your only choice is to slow done or stop and wait for another opening, I had a WRX try that, both at the on and off ramp where 79 south runs east on 30 for a few miles, he also tried passing 2 times later and failed, if he had pushed it too 100 he would have passed, the reason he failed is that he played to the spider's strong suit, 30-90, Alfas aren't off the line cars, which is why 0-60 or 1/4 times aren't really a measure of performance, exit a tight corner and head for the next corner, if it's far enough away to exceed 100 it's going to take a little longer, thats why the wrx came up short, and the same holds true for quite a few modern cars, more often it's a draw, you can't pass, but neither can they. Soooo, misconceptions here, how bout well modified Alfa's can keep up with modern machines in the Alfa's element. and this does apply to the driving you mentioned, which was not really drag racing was it. Kick downs from a set speed, Right. other misconceptions concerning Alfa's, they can't make big HP and 2000's can't rev as freely as a 1750, I don't think we would disagree that both statements are wrong, but quite a few members do, I'm running just a few less horses than you, so how do we explain your inabilty to keep the Huns at bay, I don't think it's your driving, probably your engine setup, but that is just an opinion, that's all, it's your engine, and mine is mine, and setup diferently than yours. but suggesting an Alfa owners car is setup wrong is like questioning their choice of Significant offer.

[Gary Williams]

Quote:

Originally Posted by alfa of-corse I'm running just a few less horses than you, so how do we explain your inabilty to keep the Huns at bay, I don't think it's your driving, probably your engine setup, but that is just an opinion, that's all, it's your engine, and mine is mine, and setup diferently than yours. but suggesting an Alfa owners car is setup wrong is like questioning their choice of Significant offer.