hopes and dreams for a 3.0 upgrade in the GTV6

JChinch · #1 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 05:45 AM

One question, out of anyone that has done this conversion, has anyone actually tried boring over the block? everything else isn't too hard, but I see so many stories of people just buying up a 3.0 and rebuilding it, instead of using what they have as a stepping stone... any ideas or suggestions?

**AlfaTango1** · #2 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 05:55 AM

It's probably a lot cheaper so that's why it's done so often. There have been 2.8's done which I'm thinking is 2.5 crank and larger bore but I could be wrong. I just saw a GTV6 with a 164S engine job done about two months ago, it also had ported heads, port matched intake and this thing was a little rocket maybe 220 to 230 hp. All the tickets one could want was what my friend said about it. Sure there are not as many Verde engines sitting around but 164L's are a dime a dozen, heck you could get a complete car with a decent motor for less than a grand if you shop right. Depending on how wild or mild you want to go one could use the L-Jet from a 3.0 and an L motor and have a nice 30 hp jump in short order.

Greg Gordon · #3 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 05:57 AM

I am not sure I understand the question. You can overbore the cylinder liners and fit oversized pistons, but you won't gain any significant amount of displacement. You can also overbore the block and fit larger cylinder liners, but that's a lot more complex.

Greg,
hiperformancestore.com

JChinch · #4 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 06:19 AM

I have seen the 164 Swap done, and I do like the results... but part of what I'm looking for is something, athough difficult, that is still the road less travelled. I still want to do cams, step up the EFI, (although I hear you can still use a verde powerplant with the gtv6 system) port & polish, full exhaust... (some poor guy put an exhaust gate at the Y on this before I got it. Sounds horrible and rattles to high heaven through what should be beautiful revs) Even though I could get a whole 164 for a grand, i don't really want to add to the collection of cars I have or have been through. It's partly a lasting project, where I can do my own work... that's where the latter of comments from Greg (thank you by the way) comes into play. Complex, yes.... interesting, fun, time consuming... yes... proud when it's complete... of course... I guess next I have to find a machine shop... and some 164s cams and pullies. The rest will be brand new parts... and maybe a half clean shop floor when I'm done.

AlfaTipo · #5 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 08:30 AM

"The 2.5 V6 can be bored out to a displacement of 3.1 liters. The 3.0 V6 can be bored out to either 3.3 or 3.5 liters."

Not sure about Italian Motor Works but they seem to have some expertise with Alfas.

From the owner Hans Milo, the 3.1 conversion uses "...... a set of 3.1 pistons and liners on one of our trips to the fatherland. These pistons and liners turn a 2.5 V6 into a 3.1 V6."

Quite the screamer I would think.

De Heer Milo, if you read this I beg forgiveness for stealing the photo. If it helps, I like cats too.

JChinch · #6 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 06:30 PM

So obviously, it's been done, tried and tested. Which is comforting... I feel it's only practical to be doing all this work if I have to go through the grinds of a rebuild anyway. Although it would be so nice to send it off... money in parts alone is just getting laughable.... besides, would any of us really pass up the chance to rebuild our own dream car? Didn't think so.... I guess it would be to much to ask if anyone had a solid layout on what Callaway did...

**AlfaTango1** · #7 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 07:08 PM

Passing up the opportunity and experimenting with an open check book are two different things. The 3.45 or 3.7 24V big bores that JJ does are probably the most powerful of the lot but for $10,000 engine only, plus engine management system, exhaust, drive train and more I'd have to say pass!

JChinch · #8 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 07:41 PM

Oh of course... check me off in the pass box as well.... I figure, if I have all my parts and ducks in a row for this work... really the only thing that I'll have to outsource will be the bore and sleeve pressing. Given the lack of tools. Anything else would just be silly to outsource. Nothing a few weeks, some patience and a solid understanding of the work can't fix. Not exactly open check book... more like open mind. Stripping the 86' to nuts and bolts worked out well... why not this one? The way I picture it.... a 3.0, done properly, not paying 10g's and still having the pride and happiness in the car.. not to mention the means to fill the tank to actually enjoy the ride.

Grant · #9 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 07:49 PM

Check out the "search" function this forum has. There is detailed information about the machining work involved in either the Milano section or the GTV6/Alfetta section.

**AlfaTango1** · #10 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 08:14 PM

I guess a question to ask would be what are your expectations or what would you like to achieve as a hp/torque baseline? As I'm sure you know there are a few ways of achieving this, blower, turbo, big bore 24V. I'm just an avid surfer but many here can really set you in the right direction with some more input.

GrandPrix · #11 (**permalink**) 06-07-2008, 11:06 PM

You want a fast GTV6? Strap a GG supercharger on it, and with virtually nothing else you've added 75-80 hp or more.

It's a lot less work, too, and the L-jet can do the job (until later investment in a EM system) for up to 10 pounds (according to GG's website).

Supercharger Kit

It's an alternative for you, anyway (and anyone thinking about supercharging or turbocharging or higher displacement 3.0, etc.).

Good luck, in any case.

SD

JChinch · #12 (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 06:15 AM

Good question, and to be honest... as silly as it may seem, there isn't an exact baseline I'm looking to meet... Flat out, I have to do the work and only for a few thousand dollars no less... the rings are blown, the water pump is shot, oil pump is shot, and gaskets are gone. When I bought the car, there was alot of money and time put into it by the previous owner... absolutly clean, straight, rust free, dent free body that had been repainted. Everything under the hood has been replaced, and the whole engine compartment was repainted. Interior is mint, new matched leather on seats and doors. new carpet, and roofliner. It's sad that the engine wasn't taken care of for whatever reason. Its seems the lack of care would be shown through the "exhaust gate" at the Y, with a handle that comes up through the floor by my seat... and has a craftsman screwdriver handle... just dumb. But regardless... the goal is a very strong 3.0. With the right cams, head work, good headers and full system and some smaller tweaks, I figure I'd be looking at a maybe strong 230-240.

Grant · #13 (**permalink**) 06-08-2008, 11:25 AM

What kind of engine management would you be using?

JChinch · #14 (**permalink**) 06-09-2008, 07:24 AM

not entirely sure... that is one thing i am least familiar with. There have been a few ideas i've seen by poking through posts... but i see there has been talk about running the stock 2.5 system, or just getting the 3.0 black box.. obviously that wouldn't be helping the cause any, but it wouldn't be hurting it any either... until i can find as system that would work, and i would be comfortable using.

Grant · #15 (**permalink**) 06-09-2008, 09:45 AM

Well, making 230-240hp on stock L-jet would be your biggest issue then. My understanding is without tricking the ecu to dump more fuel, and increase the inejctor sizes, you'll have trouble achieving your goal with L-Jet. Nothing that can't be overcome, of course. I think Motronic is more capable of handling big hp increases. If not, there's Gotech or other EMSs.