3.0 in Balocco

[Alfa Don]

I have a GTV6 Balocco which had a Milano 2.5l installed before I got the car. I have the option to put a Verde motor in it. Do you think that it's a wise idea to do so?

[bshorey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alfa Don I have a GTV6 Balocco which had a Milano 2.5l installed before I got the car. I have the option to put a Verde motor in it. Do you think that it's a wise idea to do so?

[Alfa Don]

Does the fact that it's a numbered Balocco make a difference? Resale wise is it a mistake?

[Greg Gordon]

Personally I prefer the 2.5 in the GTV6. There is no question I am in the minority here, but I do have a few reasons.

1. More reach in each gear due to the higher redline (all things being equal)
2. With equal gearing the GTV6 will get significantly better fuel economy, about 4 or 5 more mpg on the highway.
3. The 2.5 is the original engine. There is no question that long term, originality increases a car's value.
4. I like the way the 2.5 sounds.
5. This ONLY applies to supercharged or turbocharged motors. The power potential of both engines is the same in a GTV6 with a transaxle because the transaxle is the weak link. A 2.5 will need more boost to reach the transaxle's limit, but not that much more.

Greg Gordon,
hiperformancestore

[Mark-in-Ind]

Not to take issue with Greg's comments, but since the car already has a transplanted 2.5, then matching numbers is already out the window. The 3.0 engine will look vitually indistinguishable if the original valve covers, plenum, ect. are used. I have done this with my late 85 gtv6, and Greg is right about the apprx 4 mpg difference, but.......the extra horsepower and torque is addictive. It is just more of a good thing
To my way of thinking, a gtv6 at this time is worth slightly more or is more desirable with a nice conversion to 3.0. Only time will tell if an original condition, matching numbers gtv6 will command a significantly higher price than a equally nice car with appropriate upgrades. Maybe it depends on the owners view of whether he sees the car as something he drives vrs something he collects. Wouldn't it be nice though to see an original matching numbers gtv6 go across Barrett Jackson for $50K?

[AlfaTango1]

I'd go for the 3.0 for sure since the motor you have now is non correct anyway. 30 hp and 30 lb ft is just more fun to me. As far as resale goes, these cars are not really considered collector cars yet, just uncommon. All things being equal I would only pay a few hundred more for a Balocco or Maratona than a standard GTV6 it's all just cosmetics anyway.

[HeavyMetalAlfa]

Historically, matching numbers are a big part of collector value. In the near future [5-10 years], these cars, GTV6's, will be attaining their rightful place as collectables, and matching numbers will start to be a big thing. As your car already has an engine transplant, it is a moot point. Anyone who has a matching # car, who wants to do a conversion, should really think about keeping the original engine also. It would be a good bargaining point in the future when someone is considering buying, to have the original engine available.
I have done 2 conversions, and the extra grunt IS nice, but honestly, the 2.5 is a sweet engine.
And yes, an unmolested GTV6 WILL bring big bucks at Barret Jackson in the future, bank on it!!!!

[bshorey]

Quote:

Originally Posted by HeavyMetalAlfa Historically, matching numbers are a big part of collector value. In the near future [5-10 years], these cars, GTV6's, will be attaining their rightful place as collectables, and matching numbers will start to be a big thing. As your car already has an engine transplant, it is a moot point. Anyone who has a matching # car, who wants to do a conversion, should really think about keeping the original engine also. It would be a good bargaining point in the future when someone is considering buying, to have the original engine available. I have done 2 conversions, and the extra grunt IS nice, but honestly, the 2.5 is a sweet engine. And yes, an unmolested GTV6 WILL bring big bucks at Barret Jackson in the future, bank on it!!!!

[Greg Gordon]

I am no expert on values, but I am pretty sure that an engine of the original type is the next best thing to a matching numbers engine. For example, a 69' Mustang Boss 302 is worth a lot more with a non matching numbers Boss 302 than it would be with a 351. The same is true of most historical and valuable Alfas. I suspect it will be true of GTV6s one day.

Greg

[karmat]

Pardon my ignorance on the subject, but does Alfa even have accurate records of which number engine went in which serial number car? They don't seem to for the older cars.

Personally I LOVED the 3.0L Euro motor I put in my old GTV6. It totally woke up the car. Not that they're pokey with the 2.5L, but just more of a good thing with the 3.0L basically. I had a 4.10 rear end from a 1985 car in there as well, and that thing smoked off the line. In Ohio lots of Japanese import guys would hear the growl of the 3.0L and Stebro and want to race off the line. They were nearly all easy fodder to the legal limit (45mph in most places), at which point I always backed off. You can keep up with a WRX to that speed with that setup, too. Their power comes in later.

If you plan to boost the motor at all, though, I'd listen to Greg. He really knows his stuff. And no doubt about it, the 2.5L sounds better.

Karl

[GVVGTV6]

As much as I'd like to - I just cannot believe these cars getting up in price where matching numbers and a difference of a 2.5 to 3.0 will make any difference unless the car has very low miles.

What kind of condition is the rest of the car in? Gear box, paint, interior suspension bushings ... The 3.0 makes a big difference when you jump on it, but to me it is a waste of money to pull a perfectly good 2.5. The money would be better put towards paint and interior or other parts of the car that are wearing out. If anything buy the 3.0 if it's a good deal and stick it in the corner of your garage until the 2.5 gives it up.

G

[mjr]

whats it going to cost you to put the 3.0 in? the only advantage you are going to notice is the extra torque. You WILL miss the 2.5 sound. Im with greg on this one, extra 3.0 torque aside, IMO there's just something missing from the gtv when you fit the 3.0litre, it somehow looses some of its character. solution. blower!

[Alfar7]

I agree withe both Greg`s & Brian`s sentiments. On a true 'collector' car originality is going to up the price. But as Brian said, these cars are going to sell as mass produced not "collector". The 'Trim' package was only that, no performance or power train improvements.
The standard 3.0 Verde would "sound" nicer with the cams from an "early" GTV6 (81-82) that had 102/108 cam timing. The later cars & Milano`s used cams with 108/108 cam timing, which makes a bit more torque, which is good. The "S" 164 cam is still wider spaced, but with more lift feeds the 3.0 better, and again is designed as a better torque making cam. Of course HP is better as a result of the lift and increased duration to get that. The better motors are the "L" series which came with all the improved parts.
Put in a 3.0, I think it would be a good "investment" in fun and downstream value.

[mjr]

the "L" series, as in the 164L 12valvers? didnt these have improved/stronger rockers in the valve gear too?