02-05-2008, 12:58 PM
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Location: Portland, OR
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Failed Emissions
Grr, my brand new GTV6 failed Oregon emissions testing this morning. Not by too much, though based on some other numbers I've seen. As I read it I think I may be able to get away with a new O2 sensor only. Can anyone help me confirm that as a likely culprit? I know some of you CA guys are old hands at this. Here're the numbers:
- HC: 220 allowed, scored 306 and 361 FAIL
- CO: allowed 1.0, scored 0.146 and 0.1563 PASS
- CO2: must have 6, scored 14.6 and 14.6 PASS
The odd thing is that the numbers went up on the second pass. High HC means unburnt fuel, which means to me that it's running too rich, which I would assume means either AFM adjustment, or more likely O2 sensor. Any advice much appreciated.
BTW: The car had been run hard for about 45 mins before the test and was running regular unleaded.
Cheers,
Karl
__________________
[B]Have:[/B] 1969 1750 GTV under restoration
1969 1750 Berlina
1968 Giulia Sprint GTV (very rough, no motor)
[B]Had:[/B] 1982 GTV6 3.0 w/4.10 rear, Stebro (imported engine from UK in 2002) -- Rear-ended 8/2004.
1988 Milano Verde
[B]Non-Alfas:[/B]1984 Volvo 244
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02-05-2008, 01:09 PM
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In the Spiders' nest...
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Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Nutley/NJ & Middletown/OH, USA
Posts: 4,813
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You may want to indicate which year GTV6 model you are speaking about...
Best regards,
__________________
Enrique
Spider 74, 84 & 87
164 93L & 95Q
Milano 88 Verde
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02-05-2008, 01:26 PM
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Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Lansdale PA & Pikeville KY
Posts: 751
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You may also wish to use premium fuel for emissions testing..... instead of regular...
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02-05-2008, 01:30 PM
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but this one goes to 11..
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Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Alfaville
Posts: 2,159
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Very likely the O2 sensor with the unburt HC. A cheapo universal may very well get you through emmisions but probably won't last more than a year. About a year ago my cars P.O. had one put in to get it to pass and it's totally dead now. The Bosch OE can be pricey but I got one from Rock Auto for $167.00 delivered. They don't stock it and it took them seven days to ship but it was $70.00 cheaper than IAP.
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currently: 1984 GTV6 (Sabrina) 1992 164L (Jill) 1992 164S (Kelly) 1989 Spider Veloce (Julie)
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02-05-2008, 02:09 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by Zunige
You may want to indicate which year GTV6 model you are speaking about...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfaRomeo1750
You may also wish to use premium fuel for emissions testing..... instead of regular...
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I've read several threads where exactly the opposite was suggested. I was under the impression that regular would have more likelihood of being fully burnt during combustion. If I'm wrong, please educate me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlfaTango1
Very likely the O2 sensor with the unburt HC. A cheapo universal may very well get you through emmisions but probably won't last more than a year.
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Thanks for the info. Looks like I can get a Bosch here locally fairly cheaply. I think I'll try that unless someone has another idea. I'm open to whatever help I can get!
Cheers,
Karl
__________________
[B]Have:[/B] 1969 1750 GTV under restoration
1969 1750 Berlina
1968 Giulia Sprint GTV (very rough, no motor)
[B]Had:[/B] 1982 GTV6 3.0 w/4.10 rear, Stebro (imported engine from UK in 2002) -- Rear-ended 8/2004.
1988 Milano Verde
[B]Non-Alfas:[/B]1984 Volvo 244
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02-05-2008, 05:49 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 489
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I think I'm going to replace the plugs and air filter, too, just in case. Little stuff like that could make all the difference when it's not that far off passing. I will check the ignition timing again tonight to make sure it's set right.
Any other ideas?
Cheers,
Karl
__________________
[B]Have:[/B] 1969 1750 GTV under restoration
1969 1750 Berlina
1968 Giulia Sprint GTV (very rough, no motor)
[B]Had:[/B] 1982 GTV6 3.0 w/4.10 rear, Stebro (imported engine from UK in 2002) -- Rear-ended 8/2004.
1988 Milano Verde
[B]Non-Alfas:[/B]1984 Volvo 244
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02-05-2008, 05:52 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 624
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The only thing to be wary of with AFM tweaking as usually HC and the CO groups are a tradeoff, if you lessen the HC you might increase the CO. Otherwise I would take a voltmeter to the O2 sensor and see if it is putting out any reading, and go from there.
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"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music."
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You should buy my stuff: [url]http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=44309[/url]
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02-05-2008, 07:18 PM
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Location: Novato Ca.
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Smog Test
Karl,
The other thing you can do which might help is change the oil and filter. You can end up with unburned fuel in the crankcase and as the engine runs it can be a little rich. When we used to do smogs we had a couple of cars that were close and changing the oil and filter fixed the problem.
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Wes
Have:
85 Spyder, 79 Alfetta GT 24 Hours of Lemons 2007 Eyetalian Class Champion
Gone: 61 Sprint, 61 Spyder 67 Super, 73 &74 GTV 74 Berlina, 74 & 76 Spyder, 79 GTV Not including cars parted out
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02-05-2008, 07:36 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Portland, OR
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So I just figured out that Greg's excellent L-Jet guide has all the info I think I need on testing the O2 sensor and tuning the idle mixture. Obviously been too long since I visited that page. Thanks Greg!
L-Jetronic
Karl
__________________
[B]Have:[/B] 1969 1750 GTV under restoration
1969 1750 Berlina
1968 Giulia Sprint GTV (very rough, no motor)
[B]Had:[/B] 1982 GTV6 3.0 w/4.10 rear, Stebro (imported engine from UK in 2002) -- Rear-ended 8/2004.
1988 Milano Verde
[B]Non-Alfas:[/B]1984 Volvo 244
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02-05-2008, 07:37 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfaguy35
Karl,
The other thing you can do which might help is change the oil and filter. You can end up with unburned fuel in the crankcase and as the engine runs it can be a little rich. When we used to do smogs we had a couple of cars that were close and changing the oil and filter fixed the problem.
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Karl
__________________
[B]Have:[/B] 1969 1750 GTV under restoration
1969 1750 Berlina
1968 Giulia Sprint GTV (very rough, no motor)
[B]Had:[/B] 1982 GTV6 3.0 w/4.10 rear, Stebro (imported engine from UK in 2002) -- Rear-ended 8/2004.
1988 Milano Verde
[B]Non-Alfas:[/B]1984 Volvo 244
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02-10-2008, 07:31 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 489
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So after going over the ignition and injection systems on the car I discovered that the number 3 cylinder is not firing properly. I put the automotive multimeter on each of the 6 cylinders and measured the RPM and it was showing as about 680 rpm when on the #3 cylinder and as about 1000 rpm on all the others. Went to pull the plug and found that the spark plug wrench that worked on both my Milano and my previous GTV6 doesn't fit on this motor! It's too wide for the hole. Weird that this motor is different... So have to find another one of those before I can further track this down.
Karl
__________________
[B]Have:[/B] 1969 1750 GTV under restoration
1969 1750 Berlina
1968 Giulia Sprint GTV (very rough, no motor)
[B]Had:[/B] 1982 GTV6 3.0 w/4.10 rear, Stebro (imported engine from UK in 2002) -- Rear-ended 8/2004.
1988 Milano Verde
[B]Non-Alfas:[/B]1984 Volvo 244
Last edited by karmat; 02-11-2008 at 10:12 PM.
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02-10-2008, 09:07 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 624
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yeah, all the hole sin my 6 were diff,. and the socket would only fit down half
__________________
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms, munching magic pills and listening to repetitive electronic music."
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
You should buy my stuff: [url]http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=44309[/url]
Restore and Engine Conversion:[url]http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=46024[/url]
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02-11-2008, 10:10 PM
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Registered User
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I tried three different ones from the auto parts store and none fit. I think I'm going to buy the cheapest cheapo sheet metal spark plug remover because it's the one with the narrowest body. Meanwhile I've posted on the classifieds board asking to buy an OEM one.
Tested the plug wire and it's at 2580 ohms which is pretty close to right on. Cap and rotor look just fine. Coil is probably not the problem since it's firing on all the other cylinders just fine. So my money is a on bad plug. How lame would that be?
Karl
__________________
[B]Have:[/B] 1969 1750 GTV under restoration
1969 1750 Berlina
1968 Giulia Sprint GTV (very rough, no motor)
[B]Had:[/B] 1982 GTV6 3.0 w/4.10 rear, Stebro (imported engine from UK in 2002) -- Rear-ended 8/2004.
1988 Milano Verde
[B]Non-Alfas:[/B]1984 Volvo 244
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02-11-2008, 11:24 PM
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Registered User
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Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 56
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if not the plug check the injector seals. If they leak (air into the cylinder), you can get a lean misfire resulting in high HC readings.....also look for other vaccum leaks, they can cause the same problem but wouldn't be localized to one cylinder.
hth,
Scott
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02-12-2008, 11:39 AM
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Registered User
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Location: Portland, OR
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Good point about the injector seals. I know that I have a misfire on #3 but that doesn't mean it's the only thing wrong...
The misfire is an electrical issue because the meter says the plug is not firing. But I might have more than one problem.
Karl
__________________
[B]Have:[/B] 1969 1750 GTV under restoration
1969 1750 Berlina
1968 Giulia Sprint GTV (very rough, no motor)
[B]Had:[/B] 1982 GTV6 3.0 w/4.10 rear, Stebro (imported engine from UK in 2002) -- Rear-ended 8/2004.
1988 Milano Verde
[B]Non-Alfas:[/B]1984 Volvo 244
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