02-06-2008, 12:11 PM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 489
|
|
 Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant
For me, it doesn't matter what the final drive is. The 2.5 liter sounds very shrill and awesome, even when revving in neutral, where as the 3.0 is more masculine and gruff. That doesn't have anything to do with how quick one car accelerates when compared to another.
|
The sound does not have anything to do with it, though.
Sorry if I unintentionally hijacked the thread. Please, Richard, Greg, Jim, Gabor, ToonR, etc ignore my comments and return to your discussion.
Karl
__________________
[B]Have:[/B] 1969 1750 GTV under restoration
1969 1750 Berlina
1968 Giulia Sprint GTV (very rough, no motor)
[B]Had:[/B] 1982 GTV6 3.0 w/4.10 rear, Stebro (imported engine from UK in 2002) -- Rear-ended 8/2004.
1988 Milano Verde
[B]Non-Alfas:[/B]1984 Volvo 244
Last edited by karmat; 02-06-2008 at 12:41 PM.
|
02-06-2008, 12:29 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 471
|
|
|
Jim K.: I know about the piston I showed is a Group A piston from Mahle for GTV6 2.5 and also there is a Mahle stamp and no. on it, which is according to a list I have For Mahle pistons for GTV6. It comes from Dieter Gleich Company.
So looking at the number on the piston you showed it has not the Mahle number sytem. In the GTV6 Group A parts catalog there are listed pistons from Borgo. Could this piston(yours) have been made by Borgo?
If you are interested we could compare data in order to try find out how many types of pistons, cams etc were used. The cams you mentioned were not mentioned in my list etc. I am aware that several tuners were involved in the GTV6 Gr.A project over more than 5 years so one has to expect different parts. So I have always been interested in trying finding out. Unfortunately always the persons selling the parts never knew the specs!
Last edited by Gabor K.; 02-06-2008 at 12:32 PM.
|
02-06-2008, 01:08 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Milpitas CA
Posts: 1,527
|
|
|
speaking of cams has any one used the vics hot cams?
I got a set but when I went to put them in the springs bound up tight. and I am guessing I need to mill down the spring cutouts or use a longer valve..
they spec them at
valve timming 32-64/50-20 (at .050)
lobe centers 106°/105°
Duration@.050" 283°IN 254°EX
Overlap 52° (at .050)
lift 11.50mm IN 10.80mm EX
__________________
1987 black Milano Verde
1972 White spider 2000 Veloce
|
02-06-2008, 01:10 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Athens, Greece
Posts: 413
|
|
|
Here's the complete (?) story: the picture I have is of a piston which is a copy made from a damaged gtv6 race piston; the owner said it was a Mahle item. I intend to use this as a guide to produce a similar piston tailored for the 3liter 12v engine. The shape will be a little different though. It seems then that different teams used a variety of parts which is perfectly reasonable as some were trying to develop the engines further after receiving from Alfa. As for cams, I never referred to any V6 race cams, the discussion with RJR was about production cams. For the V6 race cams, I wouldn't be too interested in their specs because the designs of those days are now considered obsolete. Modern cams offer far better characteristics. Invariably, they have much more acceleration and less duration than was usual 20 years ago. As a consequence, valve trains are today made lighter, to be compatible. I believe the capability exists to design fast V6 cams without looking that far back.
Jim K.
|
02-06-2008, 01:34 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: SF Gay Area
Posts: 1,689
|
|
|
JimK,
What do you think of the Spruell pistons compared to the GrA piston, design wise?
__________________
1987 75 1.6ie
Mods so far: 185/65/14 Nankang HR Tires
|
02-06-2008, 01:43 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Oslo, Norway
Posts: 471
|
|
Jim K.: My interest for the cam data is purely historic interest, not to make a copy. Already at that time they were a strange construction by not allowing lift over the standard value whereas timing was free. I would not dream of making a copy of anything like that. However with the resident GTV Gr.A., it has some wild cams, achieving 250Hp on the dyno. Look forward to start it up with Autronic engine management  |
02-06-2008, 03:36 PM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 567
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant
I prefer the sound of the 2.5 every time, but the 3.0 is much quicker. What to do?
|
__________________
Strada: 1983 GTV6 2.8 "GTV26"
Corsa: 1974 2000GTV "GTV27"
|
02-06-2008, 03:38 PM
|
 |
Richard Jemison
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pensacola, Fl. U.S.A.
Posts: 921
|
|
|
Cam info
Quote:
|
speaking of cams has any one used the vics hot cams?
|
PM me for the cam builder & more info but not on the list.
__________________
Richard Jemison
RJR Racing
http://scuderiagiallo.com
"you don`t have to listen, but you won`t win the argument"!
"Nothing that I might suggest will be legal in California"
|
02-06-2008, 03:53 PM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: May 2004
Location: San Jose, California
Posts: 2,547
|
|
|
Karl, you're missing the point.
I know shorter gearing = more acceleration, higher revs, worse freeway MPG, but faster acceleration and tighter spacing between the gears. That is why I swapped out my 3.55 gear box for my Platinum's 4.11.
For me, for the engine note (and only for the engine note): 2.5>3.0
Jason, I agree!!!!
__________________
1987 Milano Platinum - check for many new items. [B][COLOR="Red"][URL="http://alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=42980"]PARTING OUT[/URL][/COLOR][/B]
1989 Verde - Harsh shocks and SS rears, 27mm torsion bars, stainless lines, pads, 16X7.5 rims, 4.10 rebuilt platinum tranny, poly bushes, and RSR 28mm front and 25.4mm adjustable sways!
1984 GTV-6 - 80K miles
|
02-06-2008, 07:23 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 489
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant
Karl, you're missing the point.
For me, for the engine note (and only for the engine note): 2.5>3.0
|
__________________
[B]Have:[/B] 1969 1750 GTV under restoration
1969 1750 Berlina
1968 Giulia Sprint GTV (very rough, no motor)
[B]Had:[/B] 1982 GTV6 3.0 w/4.10 rear, Stebro (imported engine from UK in 2002) -- Rear-ended 8/2004.
1988 Milano Verde
[B]Non-Alfas:[/B]1984 Volvo 244
|
02-07-2008, 06:31 AM
|
|
Richard Jemison
|
|
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Pensacola, Fl. U.S.A.
Posts: 921
|
|
|
Noise
Quote:
|
For me, for the engine note (and only for the engine note): 2.5>3.0
|
If you can find some very early GTV6 cams with 102/108 lobe centers stick them in!
Better yet have a set of decent cams made to similar lobe separation angles, and have more power, same great noise. But they will not be legal in
California!
__________________
Richard Jemison
RJR Racing
http://scuderiagiallo.com
"you don`t have to listen, but you won`t win the argument"!
"Nothing that I might suggest will be legal in California"
|
02-07-2008, 06:49 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 489
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alfar7
If you can find some very early GTV6 cams with 102/108 lobe centers stick them in!
Better yet have a set of decent cams made to similar lobe separation angles, and have more power, same great noise. But they will not be legal in
California!
|
Cheers,
Karl
__________________
[B]Have:[/B] 1969 1750 GTV under restoration
1969 1750 Berlina
1968 Giulia Sprint GTV (very rough, no motor)
[B]Had:[/B] 1982 GTV6 3.0 w/4.10 rear, Stebro (imported engine from UK in 2002) -- Rear-ended 8/2004.
1988 Milano Verde
[B]Non-Alfas:[/B]1984 Volvo 244
|
02-07-2008, 09:10 AM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Portland, Oregon
Posts: 62
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtv27
split the difference, 2.8 |
__________________
Jef Fowler
'85 GTV6 Gina 2, Shankle cams and headers
'85 GTV6 Gina 3, busted transaxle selector
'94 Dakota RIP
|
02-07-2008, 10:32 AM
|
 |
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 797
|
|
Quote:
|
Regarding the mentioned BMW ECU and AFM, they won't give any more power in a std engine. They allow more air in a modified engine and its there you will gain. However, this is only a poor solution nowadays. If you want serious tunable power from your 2.5 or 3liter, your best bet is to look for the ECU, AFM and wiring harness from the 164 3liter Quadrifoglio (200hp, 1990) or at least the 75 Potenziato version (1990).
|
IMO, the best bang for the buck is a complete swap to a 164S 12V engine (complete with the Motronic). The 2.8 conversion, while cool, will cost at least that (and you better pick your machinist wisely).
Last edited by ToonRboy; 02-08-2008 at 09:00 AM.
|
02-07-2008, 03:10 PM
|
|
Registered User
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Posts: 567
|
|
Quote:< | |
