Improve headlights light GTV6

[A_Alfa]

Regarding the required relays for the GTV headlight currently, as my GTV6 has the original Carellos, will need only 60Wx2 /12V = 10 Amp therefore a 20Amps relay and 15 amp fuse will do.

But I would like to left options open for 100W bulbs therefore I am thinking about putting 30 Amps relays and 20 Amps fuses.....

The questions is..... does this calculation makes sense?, and is there any cons on going for 30 Amps relees vs 20 Amps for my 60 watt lamps?

In respect of the wiring which gauge shall I use 2,5m2 or 4m2?

Thanks again.

[Tassie Tuner]

Yes, as a former electronics technician, your calculations are correct. The only difference between 20 and 30 amp relays, is that the switch contacts in the 30 amp relay are designed to handle the higher current, without becoming pitted and failing (burning out). So there is no real difference between the two in most situations, but the 30 amp relay will switch high currents reliably for many more relay operations (on/off) than the 20 amp relay, so would be better to use. The only disadvantage is that higher current relays will typically cost slightly more, due to the more exotic materials used in the switch contacts! A 15 or 20 amp fuse will be OK for the standard 60W bulbs, but you should have at least a 20 amp fuse, or possibly a 30 amp fuse, for 100W or higher bulbs. You should also make sure that the inline fuse holder that you use can handle high currents. A 20 or 30 amp rated fuse holder should be used. Don’t use the type, often with clear plastic insulation, for tubular 3AG fuses, which are sometimes used for wiring in low current car accessories, as they won’t handle the heat from high currents going through the fuse to your lights.

In a lot of countries higher wattage bulbs are illegal, so it depends on whether your country tests cars regularly, such as at an annual roadworthy check, as to whether you can run them. Technically, they are illegal here in Australia, too, but I’ve never heard of anyone being booked for having higher wattage bulbs, and I’ve regularly used 90/130W H4 bulbs in my headlights, in cars which have glass headlights. They shouldn’t be used in most late model cars, which have plastic headlights, as the increased UV output of high power bulbs causes yellowing and cloudiness in the clear plastic headlight lens, and may also melt the plastic if the car isn’t moving. Of course, high wattage (100 or 130W) driving light bulbs are legal here in Australia, and are regularly used in driving lights on cars which are frequently used out in country areas. As long as the headlights are adjusted properly, they shouldn’t dazzle people when they are on low beam. I have heard of drivers changing the bulbs to legal, lower wattage ones before annual roadworthy checks, to pass the test, and then re-installing the high power bulbs afterwards… Not that I’d suggest doing anything illegal, you understand!

The wiring from the battery, via a fuse as close to the battery as possible, to the switched contacts in the relay, and from the relay contacts to the headlights, should ideally be as thick as possible, to minimise voltage drop, and keep the voltage at the headlight bulbs as high as possible. Many manufacturers of aftermarket high quality headlight wiring looms use 8 AWG or 10 AWG wire for these wires. Many electronic shops or car audio shops sell this wire, which is often used for wiring up the power for aftermarket high power car audio amplifiers! I think that you mean mm², not m², don’t you? However, based on your question, I’d go for the thickest wiring you mentioned, which is 4mm², and that should be suitable, although even thicker wire would be better. 8 AWG cable is about 7.1mm², and the 4mm² wire is slightly thicker than 12 AWG. AWG is the American Wire Gauge, which is often used to describe wire thickness. It’s often abbreviated to gauge – 8 gauge, or 8G, or sometimes 8#, instead of 8 AWG, for instance. While car accessory places may not have the thicker 8 or 10 AWG wire, electronics suppliers like Radio Shack or Tandy in North America, or Dick Smith Electronics, Jaycar Electronics, or Altronics here in Australia usually will, and many car audio shops or installers will, too. The 2.5mm² wire is suitable for wiring the power to the relay coil, from the headlight switch – that doesn’t carry much current, so thinner wire can be used.

[A_Alfa]

yes I meant mm2

Thanks Tassie Tuner! Great detailed input!

greetings from Spain.

[beatle_bayly]

The GTV6 and all twin headlamp Alfettas use single filament bulbs (H3) in both the outer (low beam) and inner (high beam) positions.

If you have the US style buckets holding the glass, then you can modify the lights to run twin filament H4s on the outers for both hi and lo beam, and run the inners as spots. This isn't difficult but takes a bit of forethought with relays and wiring, and some expense with purchase of new lights (either sealed-beam or bulb).

Note that running high wattage bulbs in your expensive factory Carellos will dull the reflectors even faster than usual.

Oh yes, changing the lights will also change the 'look' of the front of the car.

[A_Alfa]

Yes initially will try to maintain the original look so will have to stick to the 60watts bulbs and retrieve as much as possible from them.....

[Alleggerita]

As noted above, 100W bulbs tend to burn out very quickly because of the heat generated in the small headlight - as long as you have relays and upgraded wiring and are willing to change bulbs frequently this is not a bad option.

Also mentioned above is the BMW lighting (E30 series). I was looking into that when I had a GTV6 but never got around to it. I beleive they will fit though, possibly requiring some minor modifcations. These are probably the best/brightest 5 3/4 headlites out there. IMO definitely worth looking into further.

[Tassie Tuner]

While different headlights will change the look of the car slightly, I don't think that the change is particularly noticeable, unless you look closely. And while I agree that the Alfetta GTV/GTV6 are nice to look at, Alfas are generally best for driving, not looking at, IMO... Personally, I'd turf the Carellos at the first opportunity, having experienced the change in upgrading from Carello H4 headlights to a Hella H4 setup in another car.

While it may need different buckets to change the inserts for European/Asian/Australian models, there are plenty of Japanese cars from the 1960's and 70's which had four headlight fronts (Toyota Corona or Crown models, for instance), and in my experience, many car wreckers will give the whole four headlight assembly away for practically nothing. Change the buckets over, put some Hella/Narva/Cibie headlight inserts in, which fit the Japanese buckets with no problems, and....daylight (almost). The low beam inserts are available either in H1 (single filament) or H4(double filament high/low beam) versions, so you can fit the H1 versions with no change to the wiring, although relays do improve matters, and take the strain off the headlight switch and high/low beam switch.

While the high output bulbs don't last as long, they don't fail particularly quickly, unless you touch the glass with your hands when installing them, which causes them to fail quite quickly, unles you wipe the fingerprints off with methylated spirits or a similar alcohol-based cleaner. However, you do need good wiring for them, and you should consider relays. Unless the wiring is good, they fail much more quickly, according to Hella, who say they are designed to last the longest when operated at close to their rated voltage. I've experienced that myself when running driving lamps which were earthed through the metal bumper bar. After experiencing short globe life, some experienced rally drivers in the car club I belonged to told me to provide separate earth return wires for each lamp. I wired them up with an earth return lead back to the battery, and the 100W globes lasted for years, when it had been a matter of months previously!

[beatle_bayly]

Tassie,

to fit a Japanese, or any non Alfa quad light set, you will need to do some permanent rearranging of the grille plastic, which may be too much to swallow. If you source US GTV6 buckets, you can fit aftermarket 5-3/4" lights without any damage.

I have two sets of buckets costing 20 and 60 US dollars respectively. Condition dictates the price difference.

The buckets slot straight into the adjusters that the Carellos use.

[A_Alfa]

Sorry for my limited mechanical english just to see if I understood it correctly.

I need to find US buckets that will screw directly (no reversable mods) to my european grille and then will be able to use Hella H4 headlamps that will support 100w bulbs in case needed.

If this is the case do you know a good e-source for the US buckets and the Hella H4 headlamps?

Carellos are very expensive, not good quality and difficult to find. I have managed to find some aftermarket, branded AS but they are as expensive as Carellos and same non developed performance.

Thanks this post is being really helpful

Relays and new wiring from alternator are being installed....

[beatle_bayly]

SEARCH is your friend. Rather than go over it all again, look here (has photos) ........ http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/show...dlight+buckets

Just to clarify; H4 is the designation for the BULB. You will need to source 5-3/4" generic aftermarket light glasses to fit into the buckets, and the glass will accept an appropriate bulb (H1, H3, H4). The Hx designator of the bulb denotes the shape of its base, and whether it has one or two filaments. It does not designate the wattage of the bulb.

As the factory H1 (or is it H3 ?) is single filament it will be designated something like H1-55w. A H4 being twin filament will read something like H4-55/80w. ie 55watts low beam, 85watts high beam.

Alternatively, you could fit sealed-beam lights, which are glass-and-globe all in one unit.

I think the best setup, if you are modifying the headlights, is to use H4s in the outer lights, suitably relayed to give high and low beam, then set the inner lights up purely with driving/spot lights (suitably relayed). Have the spots separately switched from the cabin so you can turn the spots off with high beam (a legal requirement in Australia anyway).

[beatle_bayly]

Something else to consider:

When you are fitting relays, try to position the relay such that you can use the original wiring to 'activate' the relay, without having to cut the original wires.

With a little careful planning you can acheive the desired result without severely altering the original spec of the car, should you or someone else decide to revert back to original at a future date.

It also allows you to easily reconnect the original wires in an emergency, should a relay fail, and you need to temporarily bypass your new circutry.

Further, it makes tracing faults and wiring much easier when you retain factory wire colours to the relay, and one can then easily distinguish where the modified circuit starts.

This goes for headlights, thermo fans, starter circuit relays etc etc.

[Tassie Tuner]

My fellow Aussie Beatle Bayly knows more about converting Alfa GTV headlights than I do, based on the fact that he’s owned GTV’s – I owned an Alfetta sedan, so I can’t comment on the physical details of how to do it, just on the fact that I’ve upgraded other vehicle headlights, including several Japanese cars. However, I can say that chances are the headlights are H1, and not H3, Beatle Bayly. The reason is that H3 bulbs are generally used on aftermarket driving lights, not headlights, but H1 bulbs are used for both headlights and driving lights. They are usually pretty efficient globes, which is why aftermarket driving lights like Hella Rally 2000, Cibie Oscar and Cibie Super Oscar, which are all very large round driving lights, and among the best available, use H1 globes. If you could use any of those lights on your GTV, they would be ideal driving lights, but sadly, they are really only suitable for large 4WD vehicles and trucks, as they are too large to fit on much else.

The more compact Cibie Oscar Plus driving lights used to – just – fit on the bumper bar of my Alfetta sedan, without sticking out, to augment the standard inadequate headlights. If you think you’ve got it tough, try owning a sedan – the headlights are unique to the vehicle, and the only way they can be upgraded is by fitting higher wattage bulbs and relays, unless you fit driving lights. Beatle Bayly’s advice about tapping into the standard headlight wiring to operate the relays is good advice – that way you can remove the wiring to return the vehicle to standard when you sell the car. It’s what I meant to say, but I don’t know how much people know, so I sometimes leave things out, and assume they know! When I sold my Alfetta, I removed all the relays and wiring, and blanked off the holes for the driving lights in the bumper bar with stainless steel dome headed bolts, to make it look relatively standard. The only way you could tell that it had been upgraded were the holes for the driving lights, and with the blanking bolts, with nice shiny heads, unless you knew that they shouldn’t have been there (i.e if you were an Alfa expert, or had owned one), you would have been none the wiser. There were also some holes for self tapping screws when you lifted the bonnet, where the driving light supports for the top of the driving light had been screwed to, but they were only very small, in the top of the plastic Alfa grille.

On most vehicles using H4 four headlight setups, they work like this. On low beam, the low beam 55W section of the outer lights is used, and the inner set is off. On high beam, the high beam 60W section (filament) of the outer headlights is used (the 55w section of those lights is switched off), and the inner headlights are also switched on. On the standard Alfa GTV headlights, it’s currently set up so that the outer H1 lights are on for low beam, and the inner H1 lights are on for high beam. You don’t need to separately wire the inner headlights via an internal switch, Beatle Bayly, as the lights only come on with high beam, the same as they do in the Alfa’s normal Carello headlights. While it sometimes makes sense to switch separate driving lights off via a separate switch, if they have covers, you don’t need to do that with the inner high beam lights – you need them to operate whenever high beam is selected. All you do is tap off the standard high beam wiring already in the car, and use that to switch the high beam headlight relay on and off. As soon as you go back to low beam, the inner headlights switch off. You need to have two separate relays, one for high beam use, and one for low beam use. American car lighting expert Daniel Stern has a good description on how to wire up headlights using relays, right down to which relay contacts are used, on his website here http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...ys/relays.html .

If you are in Spain, and find it difficult to find replacement headlight inserts locally, then you may be able to buy from places over the internet, including in other countries such as Germany or France. As Hella and Bosch are German, and Cibie are French, they should be available there! (Just pop over the border into France!!!) While I don’t know what the specifics of import/export are in Spain, I think that you are allowed to buy from other countries in the European Union, with fairly free trade. I wouldn’t buy brands that you haven’t heard of, even though you can obtain them locally, as they may not be very good quality. I’d stick with brands that are known for making good headlights, such as Bosch, Cibie, Hella, or Narva. I’m sure that car accessory shops in larger cities in Spain would sell them.

Don’t go for unknown headlight brands. After all, Carello also used to sell headlights and driving lights, and you know what they are like! I once bought a second hand car which had a set of aftermarket Carello driving lights, as well as standard (rectangular) Carello headlights. The person who I bought the car off used to travel long distances in it, so he’d tried to improve the woeful standard lights, but he’d gone for the wrong brand of driving light – even the Carello driving lights were pretty awful (sealed beam driving lights). I replaced them with Hella driving lights, and the standard headlights with replacement Hella inserts, and the difference was amazing. I’ve used Hella and Cibie headlight inserts (and driving lights), and I’ve also seen Bosch and Narva headlights (on the cars of friends), and they are all good, and much better than the standard headlights most cars come with, which are generally built to a price – cheap and nasty! And if you want a set of the US headlight buckets, why not try asking on this forum? There are plenty of American people on this forum, and some may be willing to sell headlights, or just the headlight buckets, from cars which they are dismantling for spare parts. Why not try asking, in a new thread? Try a “US headlights wanted” thread, in the “Alfa Romeo Parts For Sale and Wanted” section, and you may get an answer!

Regards,
Don

[Greg Gordon]

I usually try and stay out of these threads to keep things non commercial. However in this case I want to point out that my conversion kit takes care of all these issues on a U.S. spec car and buckets are easily sourced for cars buit for other markets.

The wiring harness and relays can handle 4 upgraded headlights (two are included). 100w high beams (a no cost upgrade) are no problem and are in use on my daily driver. It's well designed so that a failure of any one component can't leave you stranded at night without any headlights. You don't need to cut up the factory wiring to install it so when these things go up in value like an 8C you will be able to return it to stock condition.

I will agree the kit isn't cheap, but it takes me a lot of time to make the wiring harness.

Greg,
www.hiperformancestore.com
Sorry, I didn't realise how big that picture is.

[beatle_bayly]

Good stuff Tassie. It's often difficult to relay (excuse the pun) adequate info for those who are3 inexperienced, without telling the DIY experts how to 'suck eggs'

QUOTE: You don’t need to separately wire the inner headlights via an internal switch, Beatle Bayly, as the lights only come on with high beam, the same as they do in the Alfa’s normal Carello headlights. While it sometimes makes sense to switch separate driving lights off via a separate switch, if they have covers, you don’t need to do that with the inner high beam lights – you need them to operate whenever high beam is selected.


I think you'll find that legally in Australia, spotlights must be switchable separately from high beam. I guess it's easy to talk the rego guy around that the inner lights are factory, but if he's smart, and you have big wattage bulbs or sealed beams in the inners, he might take some convincing.

I like to turn the spots off when I'm driving in higher traffic areas as it makes for less of a 'cut' when you go to low beam.. On lonelier roads, particularly where roadkill is a risk, I then use the spots.

If you modify the lights to give high and low beam on the outer lights, and make the inners high output spots, then a switch is a good idea. In the 4X4 world, if your covers aren't melting with your spots turned on, then your spots aren't big enough

[Tassie Tuner]

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatle_bayly I think you'll find that legally in Australia, spotlights must be switchable separately from high beam. I guess it's easy to talk the rego guy around that the inner lights are factory, but if he's smart, and you have big wattage bulbs or sealed beams in the inners, he might take some convincing. I like to turn the spots off when I'm driving in higher traffic areas as it makes for less of a 'cut' when you go to low beam.. On lonelier roads, particularly where roadkill is a risk, I then use the spots. If you modify the lights to give high and low beam on the outer lights, and make the inners high output spots, then a switch is a good idea. In the 4X4 world, if your covers aren't melting with your spots turned on, then your spots aren't big enough