GTV6 Designer

[planetmojo]

Wonderbrad... it seems that you are a Product Designer too. That was also my calling.

I agree 100% with a the possibility that the final tea tray reasoning may have 'evolved' thru a very convoluted, and less-than-logical route. This could be debated until the cows come home, but it's only guessing until someone personally involved steps forward with the full story.

As an ID folk, myself... I too have seen some committee decisions where if you knew only the initial question and the final solution (without seeing the input contributed along the way) you would ask why getting from New York to LA required going thru the Yukon and Honduras. And often, even after knowing the whole story, you would still wonder how any sane person would arrive at that final conclusion.

Richard Jenni (the late stand-up comedian) had a story about studying philosophy in college. He was presented with the rules for using a particular form of reasoning... if premise 'A' and premise 'B' are proven to be true, then a connective conclusion 'C' must also be true. His twisted example was this: "If God is Love... And Love is Blind... then Ray Charles must be God!"

Way too much design decision-making today is not so far away from Mr. Jenni's offering.

What is your design background? I studied Product/Packaging/and Transportation Design at Art Center in Pasadena. Most of my friends and classmates from that time are now the movers and shakers in car design, today. Who knows, we may have crossed paths over the years?

Peter in Vermont

[wonderbrad]

Just PM'd you with a reply!

[HeavyMetalAlfa]

I have had a plenum pop blow the tea tray off.

[sfalfa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by planetmojo The involvement of FIAT may have saved the ALFA logo... but not the ALFA culture. Much of the definition of 'sports car' includes RWD and manual transmission, in my opinion. When you change to FWD and include automatics, you now have a GT or sporty car... but not a sports car. FWD is good for the manufacturer, as it's a more efficient way to build a car. FWD is of no use to someone who considers himself a 'driver', tho. FIAT turned ALFA into an Italian Saab, when they altered the layout.

[alfavirusnz]

The ignorant have also never driven an Alfasud.
Sports feel is not dependent on whether the car is driven at one end or the other but on agility , steering feel and basic handling traits.

[Rik]

It raises my heckles too when people bag FWD. Isn't NASCAR just a silhouette series? Are the cars based on any production cars? I'm asking out of ignorance as it's not shown that much over here.

FWD Heroes in no particular order... Mini Cooper (the 60's model), Fulvia, Alfa Sud, Lotus Elan (the 90's model), Renault Clio Williams, Peugeot 205 Gti... I could go on. Drive any one of these down a challenging, narrow, twisty road and if you come away unimpressed then, well you should probably try again and not use the brakes so much this time!!

[MR2 Zig]

Rik, you are right nascar is a stock provile series that shows well on ty here. the cars are tube frame racers with lightweight bodies draped over.

back in the 60s-70s they were stock sheetmetal and the factories would build homogation(sp?) specials to take advantage of aerodynamic tricks that they learned about (Plymouth Superbird, Dodge Daytona for example).

hth,

[wonderbrad]

Let's not waste our breath on NASCAR, fellas. It's entertainment, not racing. Why any major manufacturer spends a dollar on it is beyond me. There is zero connection between what is raced on the track and what you buy in the showroom.

[Gabor K.]

Ok, I have noticed ideas here very close to mine, that the cover could have been there for greater versatility regarding inlet system like injection and carburettors. Maybe they liked the cover plate so much that they kept it as a styling feature.
Just a speculation, but could be close?

I offer for comparison photos of the would be second series GTV6 in 1983 that did not come in production. Instead, as we know, a much simpler version came into production, with just a horizontal rubber band with grey color undreneath etc.

What I want to show is that the suggestion for an improved model had quite big differences to the original car, outside and inside. However the bonnetplate is still there, as before! I think they liked it so much that it was used as a trade mark!

[wonderbrad]

Wow. So glad they didn't go for that front end treatment (looks like a Renault)...Or that rear treatment...Or all that godawful cladding!! They should have called the 80s the cladding era instead of the malaise era. As in, gee we can't afford new sheetmetal, so we'll cover it in cake decorations that will be ill fitting and fall off soon after you buy the car. It was survival economics posing as styling.

[MotorCityDuetto]

My college degree and early career began in auto styling (then ended as soon as it started with the 1974 oil embargo). My first Alfa was a new Alfetta GT.
It was a variation of the Ace of Spades concept he devised for Audi. The Ace of Spades is the cleanest and most sharply creased of the series. The Maserati posted earlier in the thread is part of that family, but is a rehash of the Medusa show car, which is more like what Giugiaro had in mind for Alfa. If you want to see Ital Design's final derivation of this theme, it is the Isuzu Piazza (Impulse). After that he moved away from similar wedges into new directions.

Giorgetto Giugiaro mostly objected the the bump in the rear for more head room that Alfa Romeo insisted on. The bulge changed the roof line with a pair of curves curve to that made the car look relatively heavy in back. If you look at the other cars that Giugiaro did on this theme (the Scirocco is one close relative along with several others), the changes made by Alfa become obvious because they do not fit the design pattern.

The hood bump and tea tray of the GTV6 was not a styling point, but because some paints (especially clearcoat silver) soon blistered from engine heat in that location. Because silver was a popular color and clearcoat of the early 1980s was fairly fragile, a plastic insert was added.

[wonderbrad]

This is an interesting theory! Where did you hear about this paint bubbling issue?

[sfalfa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MotorCityDuetto Giorgetto Giugiaro mostly objected the the bump in the rear for more head room that Alfa Romeo insisted on. The bulge changed the roof line with a pair of curves curve to that made the car look relatively heavy in back. If you look at the other cars that Giugiaro did on this theme (the Scirocco is one close relative along with several others), the changes made by Alfa become obvious because they do not fit the design pattern.

[MotorCityDuetto]

Wonderbrad: the paint comments came from friends working for Alfa during that period at ARI (New Jersey) and with Alfa Romeo SpA.

sfalfa: The Khamsin roofline is very similar to what was intended for the Alfetta and fits the pattern of his coupes at that time, but the Maserati Medusa show car is virtually a copy of what was meant to be the Alfetta GT, as if Giugiaro wanted everyone to know what the Alfetta should really look like.

Dave

[wonderbrad]

I thought the Khamsin was a Gandini design, no? Hadn't Giugiaro left Bertone by the time that was done? According to Wikipedia, he left Bertone in '65, which means that he couldn't have designed the Khamsin, though it clearly is influenced by his work. He started Italdesign in 69.
Giorgetto Giugiaro - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Wikipedia credits Gandini with the Khamsin, btw
Marcello Gandini - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia