GTV6 Designer

[Zinhead]

Plenty of people, myself included, do not like the ZR1 hood. As others have mentioned, the reason for the black insert into the GTV6 hood was in case the plenum blows in a back fire. Porsche 911's of the same vintage have the same problem, but there is an after market backfire release valve available for those cars.

Porsche 911 Performance Handbook - Google Books

[Gabor K.]

Sorry but I don´t share that opinion about the plate transferred from Porsche. At introduction of the model the engineer in lead described the bonnet as a styling exercize and not a release valve for backfire. I think they knew how to handle backfire without making a hole in the bonnet. Also contemporary models with same engine, like alfa 90 V6 2,5 and 75 2,5 and 3,0 did not have any problems like that and also no plate in the bonnet. So why? Because the plate is a styling feature!

[Greg Gordon]

Does anyone really think they would admit it if the purpose of the plastic tray was to avoid damage to sheet metal when the plenum pops? If they really thought it was an effective styling feature they would have used it on other models.

On a similar note, I don't think it's coincidence that all the plastic side skirts and rear bumper top cover were perfectly positioned to hide rust until the car was well past the warranty period.

[Gabor K.]

Yes its a conspiration theory like the jews actually flew into the twin towers so that US could bomb the arabs etc. The story gets worse every time.

Liking documented and believable history, I am open to real facts. So if somebody really believes that the plastic plate was an escape hatch for popping plenum, I urge them to come forward with real Alfa documents on the matter! Please also explain why there was no plate on models with similar engine in the same period. Otherwise forget the whole matter!

[Gabor K.]

How about another theory:

When the GTV6 was introduced there was some mourning that the carburettors had to be discarded in modern times. The L-jet was not completeley superior to carburettors concerning torque and Hp, but much better environmentally. Could it be the hole in the bonnet and the plastic plate was a provision for fast change to carburettors or throttle bodies. In prototype form they also had engines with Spica injection.

Just speculation from my side. Anybody buying?

Look how well the carburettors fit in the bonnet hole on this nice Swedish project.

[Greg Gordon]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gabor K. Yes its a conspiration theory like the jews actually flew into the twin towers so that US could bomb the arabs etc. The story gets worse every time. Liking documented and believable history, I am open to real facts. So if somebody really believes that the plastic plate was an escape hatch for popping plenum, I urge them to come forward with real Alfa documents on the matter! Please also explain why there was no plate on models with similar engine in the same period. Otherwise forget the whole matter!

[Gabor K.]

Well sorry to hear that even you, Greg, believe in that popping story.

However I rather believe in the constructor Filippo Surace´s statement that the bonnet design was a stylistic one. As that position is the official story, that is what I believe in!

[alfavirusnz]

I know from information I have read that the plastic panel/raised hump was a styling feature pure and simple. The GTV6 was the flagship performance model for Alfa at the time and they wanted to seperate it visually from the series 2 two litre GTV`s, as well as create some under bonnet (hood) clearance so decided to make a feature of it.
Remember there is quite a difference in mechanical specs between a series 2 GTV and a GTV6 and what needed to be done for model seperation had to be done "on the cheap" so to speak, the development budget being strongly biased towards the mechanical side of the 116 coupes during a time when there was little money available for development of new projects. Changing a bonnet pressing and a plastic tray component is nice and cheap when you haven`t a lot in the kitty.
Development of the 116 coupes is an interesting story where the mechanical platform got the lions share of the relatively small project budget, leaving the body engineers with the scraps. Amazing they are such good cars despite the background to their creation and development and the tiny budget.

[gtv27]

I saw a gtv6 with a clear perspex cover fitted - didn't think much of it at the time, but perhaps there is something to it?

Instead of those carby aircleaners, it would be good to see six bellmouthed trumpets sticking out through the bonnet! Imagine the sound!

[MR2 Zig]

Engineers design things, many times, with more than one reason in mind. I think the v-6 is taller than the Nord, so the hood got a bulge. To further make it different lets put a contrasting color/material part in there....oh by the way its easy to replace if the engine pops back thru the intake side and the plenum comes off, AND we can easily change that piece to a cold air vent for racing if we want.....

The ONLY car builder that I ever heard about that actively engineered for maintenance/servicability, and said they did, was Mercedes. That went away even for them in the late 80's.

There isn't a car company out there that will admit that their cars will break down. People want reliable cars so they can't very well go around saying we put this part in there to be easy to fix when this other thing fails and breaks it.....who is going to pay big money for a car that the maker knows is going to break? The makers can't afford to say " buy my car, its gonna break on you". So the tea tray is a styling detail and that is the official line. In reality most of the body designers don't know that the engine had a 'popping' problem....some engine designer just said to give them a hole there and make way for a changeable part with no reason given.

hth,

[TorW]

I agree with Gabor, and I think that the plenum popping theory falls neatly in the same niche as the "mid monunted engine because of the side vents" on Montreals. People are still passing that particular 40 year old rumour around as an undeniable fact. The proof, after all, is in the pudding. Even when Gandini came forward in 1992 to state it was merely a stylistic feature to lure the eyes away from the mega-enormous B-pillar, nobody took notice.

Believing something really hard doesn't make it true, and when exactly did the Italian carrozzerie start to follow Teutonic logic in their body designs? When it's beatiful to look at, it's off to the factory!

[planetmojo]

I had heard that one of the limited edition GTV6s actually came from the factory with a transparent 'tea tray'. It may have been a Maratona, but I believe I was told it was the Balocco?

Don't know if that means glass clear, or frosted transluscent? I've heard this from more than one source, so there may be some truth to it. If it was clear, then the hood blanket would have required a similar cut out in that area, too. Otherwise you'd have a window looking into the backside of a very unattractive sheet of felt-like material.

Maybe one of you has first hand knowledge on this?

[MR2 Zig]

I think my hood blanket is original and it is cut out around the tea tray. I've seen some who have replaced their opaque plastic with either clear of tinted plexiglass and one who used a louvered sheet metal piece, but none had indicated that it was a factory thing. A show car would be a place to see one with a clear panel, but all the Maratonas and Baloccos I've seen or heard about had the standard opaque tray.

[wonderbrad]

I have another plausible theory for the tea tray's existence:
Perhaps they originally intended to have some sort of functional scoop or intake in that spot. As you can see in the early test mule in Gabor K's post at the first page of this thread, even that early mule has something there on the hood hump, but it is hard to say if it is an intake. It definitely is taller than the final tea tray though implying that it may have been some sort of intake or clearance related issue from before they went with the Bosch system? So perhaps another explanation is that they hastily tooled up the stamping mold for the hood and then subsequently decided that they no longer needed a scoop or intake there. Rather than spending money on retooling the hood again, they made a plastic panel to cover the hole, and add "style" to the bulge. This may sound retarded, but as a product designer I have seen decision making like this occur all the time in the real world. And given the Italian reputation for linear thinking and the known budgetary constraints, this isnt that far fetched. BUT I have no real evidence to support this view.

[Greg Gordon]

I like that theory.