Increased Clutch Pedal Free Play

[steveh29]

Good day, I was on a Sunday drive home from my in-laws house when I thought I noticed the clutch pedal having more free play before engaging the clutch. At first I thought it was me, but sure enough each time I pushed the clutch in, the free play increased. I was able to make it home but here's the current situation.

I can push the pedal down more than halfway and there is zero resistance. It's like the clutch pedal is not connected to anything. The pedal will swing back and forth like it's dangling free if I slip my foot off. If I push the pedal all the way to the floor, it will operate the clutch and I can shift fine, but the clutch engages right off the floor - as I let it up just slightly.

I see no fluid leaks and the fluid level is normal. My other hydraulic clutches make it pretty obvious when there's a bad master or slave (or leak). However this one seems like something has come out of adjustment. Any suggestions before I start dismantling things?

Thanks!

[gt601]

You mat have broken the pivot ball/pin on the clutch fork. You will have to pull the boot back and inspect it.
Paul

[steveh29]

Good point and I'll check that out over the weekend. I've got spares of the pivot ball and related hardware should that be my problem. Will keep everyone posted.

[gt601]

Did you find anything?

Paul

[FrencheGTV]

Great, I was just about to start a thread with the exact same problem, looks like the hard work has been done for me :P. Originally i thought there might be a leak in the clutch line (car gets parked on gravel so it's kinda hard to tell) but after all that checked out I was out of ideas. The clutch still works, just sometimes it doesn't dis-engage fully. Also I don't like the way Alfa has the clutch master cyl using the same tank as the brakes, that's just asking for trouble. Looks like i'll be doing a gearbox swap sooner than i'ld like to

[steveh29]

I've not put the car up on jackstands yet. I have Friday off so I'll be doing the crime scene analysis tonight. I will certainly post an update as to what's happened along with related pictures.

[ToonRboy]

When my clutch pivot ball broke, the pedal went to the floor & I heard the "pop". This also caused the piston on the slave to blow-out and hydraulic fluid was spewing when I pumped the clutch pedal and hung my head under the car while holding the wheel (to observe). You could just have a failed slave cylinder. Not too uncommon.

[steveh29]

I looked everything over pretty carefully this weekend. Good news is the clutch fork and dreaded pivot ball are intact. In fact, everything on the transaxle side looks fine. Under the dash, there's a cylindrical spring that keeps the pedal up - not slack against the master cylinder pushrod. Mine's broken in two places. I have no idea how that happened but it would account for a certain amount of floppiness.

The clutch still needs to be pressed all the way to the floor but it does work correctly. I'm thinking that either the master or slave is on the way out. I see a slight bit of corrosion around the master where it mounts to the firewall. No wet fluid leaking but this corrosion suggests that something's been weeping from the back of the master. It's not a lot of money to change both (and hose) so I'll probably do that because I've not cut up my knuckles, gotten brake fluid in my eye or twisted my back lately and I need a little adventure.

I also noticed while I was under there that one of the rubber donuts for the rear sway bar linkage had vanished (which explains the jingling sound I'd been hearing during the last two outings).

[gt601]

Quote:

I'll probably do that because I've not cut up my knuckles, gotten brake fluid in my eye or twisted my back lately and I need a little adventure.

[tomgtv6]

I have that saga. If you push the pedal fast, you have clutch; if you ease it in, it will go to the floor. There is an internal leak in either the master or slave. Mine was in the slave determined after rebuilding the master 5 times; I'm slow. I had to manage it for a while so I played a trick on some buddys; while driving around I would slowly push the clutch down and get them to look and then I would use it at the stop light and then I would ask them what was going. It always blew there minds.

[FrencheGTV]

Ok i've got good news and bad news. Yesterday my dad and I bled the clutch to see if we could get any improvement as when I tried to start it (in gear, handbrake off, foot on clutch) the car lurched backwards a few times before starting but running very roughly, I guess that the clutch is now never fully diss-engaging (verified this by starting in neutral, depress the clutch then slowly try to put it in any gear, would not go in, could just hear it shredding what's left of the synchros). We gave up on bleeding it when we couldn't get any improvement in the pedal. Also I noticed when I was under there that the clutch fork wasn't moving very far, maybe 1cm at the most as measured by the Mk.1 eyeball where the s/c rod hits it, this struck me as a rather small amount. So that led me to believe broken pivot ball as the master cyl was replaced a few years ago (also when bleeding fluid came out so I gather it is pumping fluid) and since the slave was pushing against the rod I assumed it worked.

Got up nice and early this morning ready to remove the transaxle to fix the problem however before I started I thought it would be a good idea to remove the slave cyl and clutch fork to verify that the ball is actually broken. Well after getting myself covered in brake fluid as the slave cyl blew itself apart 30sec after being removed from car (insert favorite swear word here lol) I removed the clutch fork and guess what?? pivot ball still in place and still covered in grease (verified by checking spare transaxle, it looks exactly the same).

So now I guess the either the master or slave is shot, unless i've done something seriously wrong to the clutch, which I doubt as it was running and driving for several days even with this problem. The slave looked nice and shiny inside, no dirt or rust but I only had a quick glance, might be time for a better coat of looking at. I have the master cyl that was removed, was told it was good and was replaced when clutch was replaced as a pre-caution, I might try putting that on and getting a new slave cyl.

[FrencheGTV]

Ok problem solved, I think. Upon closer inspection of the slave cyl, I found that it was missing an approx 5mmX2mm piece of piston seal, also when I took the rubber bellow thingy off the inside was full of fluid so it was leaking. I should have a new cyl tomorrow if my mate has one, if not can anybody suggest a place in Australia that might have one? Since it's my only registered car at the moment and university goes back on monday, I kind of need it running. Thanks

[steveh29]

I'll be ordering parts this week - provided my day job and two small children don't drive me insane. From my previous Toyota hydraulic clutch experience, they're simply a pain to bleed. I've had good luck with a vacuum bleeder sucking fluid from the slave bleeder valve as well as some advice from a rather unlikely source. I'll let you know how it works out.

[steveh29]

For the record and to close out this thread, replacing the clutch master and slave fixed the problem. I believe it was a bad master cylinder because there was a lot of decomposed rubber leaking out of the back of the cylinder. I chose to replace all the hydraulic components since they were all of questionable age and total parts were only about $150 including shipping. The only challenging part of the whole experience was bleeding the system. I'm back on the road now.

[CrazyMan]

where did you find a slave cylinder? im looking for one