Pictures our Alfetta's rust. - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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Old 05-04-2008, 05:32 PM
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Pictures our Alfetta's rust.

We haven't had our Alfetta long, but I want to make sure we address the rust before things get too nasty!

First, a very poor picture of the car:

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/20807471@N05/2466038178/" title="DSCF1935 by stupidbuthey, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3271/2466038178_f08d5d9a75.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="DSCF1935" /></a>

More pictures of similarly dismal vantage points can be found here:
http://www.alfabb.com/bb/forums/pict...fettas-14.html

So, I'm pretty clueless when it comes to body work. I was hoping some of you could tell me how serious this rust is, and what short term and long term steps I should take to keep this beauty alive!

Rear hatch...some Por15 seems to have been applied a while back to slow to the growth.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/20807471@N05/2465247829/" title="DSCF1950 by stupidbuthey, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3214/2465247829_9d5daf850b.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="DSCF1950" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/20807471@N05/2465246061/" title="DSCF1949 by stupidbuthey, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3024/2465246061_d1d9b1514f.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="DSCF1949" /></a>

A lone patch on the roof:
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/20807471@N05/2465232585/" title="DSCF1946 by stupidbuthey, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3043/2465232585_b9a236409a.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="DSCF1946" /></a>

I wanted to show that there isn't any rust on the inner fenders. I'm currently working on the Spica.
<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/20807471@N05/2465228067/" title="DSCF1944 by stupidbuthey, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2028/2465228067_5e3c6fbabb.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="DSCF1944" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/20807471@N05/2465224331/" title="DSCF1942 by stupidbuthey, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3230/2465224331_07812436b9.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="DSCF1942" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/20807471@N05/2465222485/" title="DSCF1941 by stupidbuthey, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3061/2465222485_1f461457c1.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="DSCF1941" /></a>

Probably the most serious, the rust below the front windshield. Does this mean there is lots of rust in the inner structure?

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/20807471@N05/2466047798/" title="DSCF1940 by stupidbuthey, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3052/2466047798_8c462a7000.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="DSCF1940" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/20807471@N05/2466045900/" title="DSCF1939 by stupidbuthey, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3119/2466045900_b0ba670f10.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="DSCF1939" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/20807471@N05/2465216799/" title="DSCF1938 by stupidbuthey, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2315/2465216799_0bd059ba29.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="DSCF1938" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/20807471@N05/2466041934/" title="DSCF1937 by stupidbuthey, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2146/2466041934_0c10b14609.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="DSCF1937" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/20807471@N05/2466039938/" title="DSCF1936 by stupidbuthey, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3085/2466039938_987aa3071e.jpg" width="500" height="333" alt="DSCF1936" /></a>

That sums it up. Let me know what I should do immediately, this is a great car, and I hope it doesn't have to get tossed!
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Old 05-04-2008, 06:40 PM
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Hi Grant,
No, just because there is evidence of rust around the glass does not mean it's terminal. BUT- to stop it you must remove all glass, and I mean ALL the glass, front, rear, and sides, including removing all of the chrome trim strips that run beneath the bottom of all of the glass. You can't see it yet, but there is more rust lurking beneath all of those chrome trim strips. The fixed side glass panels will be the worst. Once you carefully pry off the chrome strips, you will see spring clips that tension the glass panels in place, these will all be rusted, as are the sills that trap the glass in place between the car's interior and exterior. It's just the way the car is designed. Wash it and without drying it, observe where the water sits without draining off. It's along all those lower glass chrome strips. The metal beneath the upper drip rail chrome is OK, probably no need to worry about it. You'll have to remove the interior panels to do this job, and drill out some rivets, but it's not too difficult. If you are careful you can reuse the front and rear glass gasket rubbers. If they are brittle or dry rotted, you're looking at several hundred dollars to replace them. I was able to reuse my windshield gasket, had to buy a new rear glass rubber from Highwood. Also, drill out the rivets that retain the front fender access panels, the drain tube for the sunroof is in there, and it's the drain point for the cowl. All the debris that fell down in there through the cowl over the years is clogging the drain slit in there and may be rusting. There's much more of this along with pictures in my thread "saved a Sprint Veloce from the crusher". Good Luck!
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Last edited by La Voce; 05-04-2008 at 06:43 PM.
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Old 05-05-2008, 04:23 AM
mjr mjr is offline
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I couldnt agree less with the last post!. the damage you can't see WILL be far worse than what you can.It WILL bw terminal in places under there. I guarantee that when you take the front and rear glass out, the channels will be rusted through in places. You will be able to poke a screw driver through the metal in various places , since it will have rotted through. On the outside, the rust will have spread to at least 20% further than the bubbling shows. you will need to feather the paint away quite a lot further than you can see the rust, to get to the edge of the spread.

you will need to take the paint off until you get to clean metal.

you will need to cut out the rot once the screens are out, if you want to stop it for good.

you will need to replace the screen rubbers with new, since the old ones will now be stressed out of shape and wont sela again in future.
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Old 05-05-2008, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by La Voce View Post
Hi Grant,
Also, drill out the rivets that retain the front fender access panels, the drain tube for the sunroof is in there, and it's the drain point for the cowl. All the debris that fell down in there through the cowl over the years is clogging the drain slit in there and may be rusting.
Being that this was my car for the past 8 or 9 years, I'll chime in as well. Jim, this car doesn't have a sunroof, but the cowls were all cleaned out (along with the insides of the doors) at least 3 times during my ownership. The first time, I'll removed all the usual junk you find accumulated from the cowl, after that - it was pretty clean and became just routine checks.
My hunch is that the rust may be not as bad as Mjr suggests, with the worst being the lower front windscreen. The car has lived a fairly pampered life from day one in the SF Bay area, with the exception of about 1 year, it was always garaged. When I bought it, I did scrape the surface rust off and applied Por-15 and some black paint, and the areas I did that to did not progress much at all during the time I had it.

HTH
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Old 05-05-2008, 10:42 AM
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So new windshield gaskets are only available from england? Are they a different part than the GTV-6 Gasket ones?

Is the GTV6 windshield and Alfetta windshield interchangeable?
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1989 Verde - Harsh shocks and SS rears, 27mm torsion bars, stainless lines, pads, 16X7.5 rims, 4.10 rebuilt platinum tranny, poly bushes, and RSR 28mm front and 25.4mm adjustable sways!

1984 GTV-6 - 80K miles
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Old 05-05-2008, 10:51 AM
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I bet if you were to contact Alfa Parts in Berkeley - they could procure them for you - but like others mentioned, it's pricey! I got door rubbers for one of my sedans from them years ago.
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Old 05-05-2008, 03:56 PM
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Grant, not sure on the GTV-6 -Alfetta glass compatibility. IAP sometimes has one of the two in stock, I think it's the rear seal but can't remember. Although no one really knows until you tackle the problem, MJR has a good point, once you remove the glass you need to carefully work outward removing all the paint until you stop seeing rust, and that's usually a larger area that what you see now bubbling out.
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Old 05-06-2008, 02:25 AM
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I think it's pretty clear that this is a rust bucket and that you should definitely sell me those bumpers for my GTV-6.



What?



SD
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Old 05-06-2008, 02:40 AM
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More than 30K has been spent on this car since it was new. You're not getting the bumpers! =)

Please, more tips if you have them folks. I'm learning quite a bit through this thread, and reading some threads in the 105 threads.
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1987 Milano Platinum - check for many new items. [B][COLOR="Red"][URL="http://alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=42980"]PARTING OUT[/URL][/COLOR][/B]

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1984 GTV-6 - 80K miles
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Old 05-08-2008, 03:39 PM
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That is a standard kind of problem on these cars. My gtv6s are not as bad as as my old sports sedans. I believe they used russian steel which was probably not the best alloy. If you can get the windows out and blast the rust then use por then an etching primer and then polyurathane paint. Getting to the back side would be good too. I like the car.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:14 PM
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what's this russian steel that defies metallurgical properties by being an alloy too? sorry couldnt resist.

your key to getting this right, is the right approach. forget about trying to minimise paint damage or try cut corners. What ever is required to get at the rust, do it, no matter how much paint you have to feather back., or how many holes you have to punch through. dont be tempted to leave overly thin corroded steel behind, just cut it out, and get rid.

heres all the advise I can give you. hope it helps you.

Get yourself some 3M scotch bright rotary discs of various grades to take off the surface rust on the rcovearble areas. DONT USE EMERY ABRASIVE PADS IN A DRILL!!, you will take too much metal off in one go. the 3m pads allow you to take off a little at a time and asess if you want to go deeper. for the window channels, a steel rotary high speed wheel is best, it will get into all the gaps. take ALL of the paint off in there. grit blasting is just too ****ed messy for my liking, you will be vacuming it out of the car forever!

Any steel that has pitted deeper than a few microns into the steel, clean off as much as you can with a wire rotary, but not all of it, you need to leave some traces behind on the pitted areas for the POR15 or phosphoric solution to react with and stabilise a base. if you apply any phosphoric solution like POR to clean metal it will introduce corrosion by strpping the steel of any protection at all, it will go orange surface rust within 30 minutes, It needs a small amount of ferrous oxydation to do its job (it should tell you that anyway on the tin). use a product like POR15 or similar that leaves a very hard converted oxygen impervious base behind (normally black) that can be painted on top of.

Dont bother with your local wall mart rust coverter rubbish, it wont cut it, as they are not allowed to sell industrial strength stuff to the general public, just in case you are retarded enough to spread it all over your face or eat it!

If you can get neat phosphoric acid or hydrochloric acid 70-90% concentrate, this will kill the rust with a few applications, but will also strip the metal of any inherant protection, so you will need to put a stabiliser on afterward (within minutes of being dry). let it dry, then put an acid zinc etch coat on asap. try use an acid etch that isnt hygroscopic (doesnt absorp water), otherwise you will be forced to primer within 4 hours of etching too.

Other excellent products for killing the rust are made by Dinitrol. there are some awsome products they sell for oil rig uprights. if it can handle Atlantic salt, the alfa is no bother.

remember it doesnt need to be pretty in the window channels, your aim is to stop the corrosion dead in there, so if you cant get a smooth paint finish in there, who gives a rats arse, no one will see it. when you put screens back in, a good trick is to smear aviation jointing compound between the inner seal and metal channel, it will stop moisture being held against the metal. (the most common brand is Mastinox. Its a yellow stuff that sticks everywhere!!)

The only other thing I would say to be aware of is Mechanics!! if you have any welding done by mechanics, they WILL, no matter how good they say they are, cut corners if they have a boss, deadlines and a body shop full of cars, period! find a resto expert not a general body shop! make sure they etch both sides of any plates they are going to weld in, with weld through etch primer. INSIST ON IT, otherwise the new metal work will start rusting within weeks of a new repair, which makes the whole repair pointless. also ask mechanic what gauge of welding wire he is going to use, and insist on short small spot welding cycles, to avoid heaps of body filler having to be applied afterwards. to do it right you really need to pull the entire dash, so that paint can be applied both sides. heat soak from welding outside, even in short cycles will damage paint on the inside of the car, but you could always cheat a bit and just squirt ACF50 corossion inhibitor along between the dash and bulkhead before screen refit, that should track along the bulkhead and stop anything before it starts.
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Old 05-08-2008, 06:24 PM
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what's this russian steel that defies metallurgical properties by being an alloy too? sorry couldnt resist.
You have much to learn, grasshopper: steel is an alloy of iron and carbon.

If you're going to be a smart-arse, at least get it right!
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Old 05-09-2008, 02:12 AM
mjr mjr is offline
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DoH!!!
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Old 05-15-2008, 03:36 PM
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Rust is horrible, yes...

My own Alfetta is rusty as well




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Old 05-15-2008, 05:46 PM
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I'd cover that up quick!!!

In a few days, it will look like my car! XD
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1987 Milano Platinum - check for many new items. [B][COLOR="Red"][URL="http://alfabb.com/bb/forums/showthread.php?t=42980"]PARTING OUT[/URL][/COLOR][/B]

1989 Verde - Harsh shocks and SS rears, 27mm torsion bars, stainless lines, pads, 16X7.5 rims, 4.10 rebuilt platinum tranny, poly bushes, and RSR 28mm front and 25.4mm adjustable sways!

1984 GTV-6 - 80K miles
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