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post #1 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 04:53 PM Thread Starter
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Alfa GTV water pump replacement

So the water pump on the GTV is on its way out so this weekends job was to replace it. I used the Hayne's manual and it all seemed pretty straight forward. I drained the radiator and got the pump off all pretty easily. Haynes did say i would have to remove the crank pulley to get the water pump off but there was no obstruction by the crank pulley and i got the pump off fine without having to take it off first which seemed slightly strange to me.

I put the gasket on with some sealant to mate it to the block and then did the water pump tight and left it for a few hours to let the sealant set. I came back and filled the radiator with 2L of water but noticed there was a leak on the underside of the pump so undid everything and it seems the sealant didn't form an even surface and even worse the paper gasket was now rooted/unsalvagable (feeling pretty frustrated about that). I tried the process again but rather than using a paper gasket i used a gasket maker compound of which i used a fair bit of around the base of the pump and then stuck it back on the block and have now left it to set over night.

Will i be okay using the gasket maker compound instead of the paper gasket in the long run? I did notice the compound was silicone based and seemed to be an absolute pig of a thing to get off once it had set.

Cheers,

Sam
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post #2 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 05:33 PM
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Originally Posted by SamGTV View Post
So the water pump on the GTV is on its way out so this weekends job was to replace it. I used the Hayne's manual and it all seemed pretty straight forward. I drained the radiator and got the pump off all pretty easily. Haynes did say i would have to remove the crank pulley to get the water pump off but there was no obstruction by the crank pulley and i got the pump off fine without having to take it off first which seemed slightly strange to me.

I put the gasket on with some sealant to mate it to the block and then did the water pump tight and left it for a few hours to let the sealant set. I came back and filled the radiator with 2L of water but noticed there was a leak on the underside of the pump so undid everything and it seems the sealant didn't form an even surface and even worse the paper gasket was now rooted/unsalvagable (feeling pretty frustrated about that). I tried the process again but rather than using a paper gasket i used a gasket maker compound of which i used a fair bit of around the base of the pump and then stuck it back on the block and have now left it to set over night.

Will i be okay using the gasket maker compound instead of the paper gasket in the long run? I did notice the compound was silicone based and seemed to be an absolute pig of a thing to get off once it had set.

Cheers,

Sam
Hi Sam the gasket maker compound should be fine provided you had both surfaces clean dry and OIL free. Also hope you didn't over do the sealer and had gobs of sealant coming out around the edges as it can come loose and cause problems inside the cooling system. Other than that should be fine your not the first to ruin a paper gasket and won't be the last mate.

Current cars 1975 spyder under resto, 1971 spyder needs work, 1972 GTjunior fully restored, 1 complete rolling shell spyder.exit 1989 75 T/S sold
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post #3 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 05:39 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply spydaman. Unfortunately it always seems to be the first time i do these jobs i inevitably encounter a couple of these hiccups, guess it's just part of the learning curve. I may have been a bit heavy handed in the gasket maker just wanting make sure that it would provide a decent enough seal and there was a bit off run off around the edge but i wiped it off, i guess i'll see soon enough if it was too much and worst comes to worst i'll drain the system and do the job again.

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post #4 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 07:12 PM
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It's for moments like yours that I've always kept a supply of gasket paper on the shelf. Maybe see if your local Repco store has some; making them up is pretty easy if you have a part or an old gasket to use as a template.

Alister
1973 105 GTV (Alfa #6 of 19 owned)
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post #5 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 07:20 PM Thread Starter
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I've got the original gasket (has a tear in it) from the old water pump. I could trace around it still but don't know if my copy would be exact enough. If the gasket seal doesn't work that'll be my next move.

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post #6 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 07:31 PM
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I may have been a bit heavy handed in the gasket maker just wanting make sure that it would provide a decent enough seal and there was a bit off run off around the edge but i wiped it off...
The problem is that you can't wipe off the excess sealant on the inside of the water pump, and the "worms" that form there will break off and circulate in your cooling system. This may not cause any problems - silicone worms are a bigger problem in your oil - but it isn't the best technique.

Making a replacement gasket, and sealing it with a thin layer of non-hardening sealer is the better solution.

When you say that your water pump came off without having to remove the crankshaft pulley or back out the lower studs - is your car a 4-cyl or a V-6? All my experience is on 4-cyl Alfas, and on those, the pulley invariably needs to come off. Perhaps not on a V-6.

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'63 Guilia spider
'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
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post #7 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-11-2017, 07:39 PM Thread Starter
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Yeah, i would've thought that the silicone worms would just wind up in the expansion tank and you may just be able to fish them out of there. The only thing i am worried is the silicone is a nightmare to get off of the block so if i need to do this job again with a gasket it may not seal properly because of the silicone residue i can't get off.

It is a 4 cylinder. It was quite strange as i was nearly certain you had to take the crank pulley off and Haynes also stressed that. Here's a photo of the front of the block once i had gotten the old pump off, sorry the photo is not so flash. I'm wondering if the crank pulley isn't the original but it has all the correct crank markings on (p, f and m). Could the block also be missing a couple of studs?
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post #8 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 11:33 AM
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Pulley

In my experience, the pulley doesn't actually have to come OFF the car; I do have to loosen the crank pulley nut and move the pulley forward about 1/2", then the water pump can be removed. Looking at your photo, it appears that someone has machined off some of the material from the rear surface of the pulley (or found a thinner pulley). This would allow removal of the water pump without messing with the pulley.

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post #9 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 04:04 PM Thread Starter
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Wouldn't surprise me if there had been some modification to the crank pulley, the car has been messed with by some pretty useless people and I've spent a fair amount of time trying to undo their bodge jobs. The radiator in the car isn't original and in order to bring it up to height to bolt it in the PO propped up with a piece of wood lol, will probably look at doing a new radiator at some point as that one is looking pretty shagged.

Topped the car up with 8L of water and coolant this morning and thankfully it looks like there aren't any leaks around the water pump! I let it idle for about 15 minutes with the radiator cap and expansion cap off, with the thermostat bleed valve slightly open and the fan on hot. I then took it for a few laps around the block and everything seemed to be fine, it didn't try to cook itself and seemed to run very cool. I guess I will only know after some time of driving it if there are any problems so will just keep some coolant and water in the car at all times just to be safe.

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post #10 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-12-2017, 06:53 PM
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Could the block also be missing a couple of studs?
Sure, the front cover could be missing a few studs - your photo doesn't show the bottom of the water pump, so I can only guess. Are there holes in the pump with no studs coming through them?

A PO may have removed some of the lower studs to replace the waterpump (which is an OK procedure) and then failed to re-install them to make the job easier (not an OK procedure). If there are missing studs, you could install 6 mm bolts into those holes to improve the clamping between the front cover and water pump.

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'63 Guilia spider
'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
'91 164L

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post #11 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 01:40 AM Thread Starter
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The block does have all the studs. There aren't any holes in the pump that don't have any studs. It appears the crank pulley has been messed with, have added another photo of the crank pulley. I went for a longer drive this evening and noticed there was a slight fluctuation in the temperature. It would sit around 80 but sometimes it would randomly jump up quite quickly but would then come back down quite soon after. Would this indicate air in the coolant system? If so is the best way to bleed it just run it at idle with radiator cap and expansion caps off and thermostat bleed screw slightly open?
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post #12 of 12 (permalink) Old 03-13-2017, 09:51 AM
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It would sit around 80 but sometimes it would randomly jump up quite quickly but would then come back down quite soon after. Would this indicate air in the coolant system? If so is the best way to bleed it just run it at idle with radiator cap and expansion caps off and thermostat bleed screw slightly open?
Yes, the procedure you described should work fine. Just be sure to do it with the engine cold, or remove the rad cap slowly if it is hot.

If that doesn't fix the dancing temperature gauge, then the problem could be the coolant sensor / gauge / wiring.

Jay Mackro
San Juan Capistrano, CA

'63 Guilia spider
'65 Guilia Sprint GT
'67 Duetto
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