1985 GTV6 24V Build - Page 3 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #31 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-09-2016, 05:13 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by junglejustice View Post
Rob, nice job on the installation - very clean!

My advice is to keep the fans cranking full blast to keep that puppy cool. All of the mapping to date for that ECU was done at 185 to 190... I'd rather install an IAC motor from a 164 or a BMW or something and make associated adjustments in the mapping to keep the idle rpm stable that way.
Thanks John, I appreciate your advice, encouragement and help with the project. That engine completely transformed the car. Its unbelievable, and pulls very hard. I have a 164 IAC to try out and spoke with Paolo at Gotech and he told me how to setup that IAC if I end up installing it. I will definitely aim to keep those engine temps around 185/190 with the fans.

-Rob
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post #32 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-09-2016, 08:48 AM
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185/190 might be unrealistic if you're driving in town...and running the fans at full tilt with that alternator draw at idle will affect the idle, and leave you chasing your tail on tuning. I've had my own set of challenges on the 24V tuning and that is one of them. Definitely need reliable IAC tuning to compensate for fans running at idle if you want it perfectly smooth. There's no problem on the 24V engines running coolant temps over 200, so all you'll need to do is adjust your tables accordingly once hot.

Rob
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post #33 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-09-2016, 10:19 AM Thread Starter
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185/190 might be unrealistic if you're driving in town...and running the fans at full tilt with that alternator draw at idle will affect the idle, and leave you chasing your tail on tuning. I've had my own set of challenges on the 24V tuning and that is one of them. Definitely need reliable IAC tuning to compensate for fans running at idle if you want it perfectly smooth. There's no problem on the 24V engines running coolant temps over 200, so all you'll need to do is adjust your tables accordingly once hot.
That is why I was thinking about having one slow speed fan and then a high speed fan. I hoping to strike a balance between not over loading the alternator at idle and keeping engine temperatures in check. When both fans kicked on at full blast when idling, the rpms the would drop to about 500 and would struggle and then stall. If the engine temps are kept in check with one low speed fan around town, the alternator wont struggle as much at idle. Looks like some experimentation is in order with multiple ways to skin this cat by the sound of it.

Here are my current options:

- separate radiator fan relay triggering with two temperature ranges to limit both running at the same time unless absolutely necessary (currently setup in car)
- install 164 radiator fan resistor to slow one fan down, reducing current draw requirements at idle (currently setup in car)
- install a more modern alternator capable of more current output at idle
- install 164 IAC to help keep idle stable while alternator pumps out current to feed the power hungry fans
- replace Maserati fans with stock GTV6 radiator fans (that are probably adequate which pull much less current when both are running)

-Rob
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post #34 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-13-2016, 01:00 PM
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sometimes setting up the IAC's is a pita with aftermarket ecu's...digital/analog...pulsed, steady...3,4,5, wire...etc...
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post #35 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-16-2016, 08:11 AM Thread Starter
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sometimes setting up the IAC's is a pita with aftermarket ecu's...digital/analog...pulsed, steady...3,4,5, wire...etc...
I figured that much. I think mine is a two wire bi-metallic strip IAC. I will end up doing one as a last resort.

-Rob
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post #36 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-23-2016, 08:10 AM Thread Starter
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steering rack update

The steering noise (and subsequent rack movement) was all caused by my welded steering column joint. It appears I welded the original column joint while it was in a crooked state. This allowed it to transfer the out of round movement directly to the pinion shaft which then transferred it to the steering rack. I purchased a solid (and straight) non welded used replacement from APE which did the trick. I was not aware there were two manufacturers for the steering column joint (along with the column knuckles). They are compatible with each other with enough patience.

-Rob
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post #37 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-23-2016, 12:23 PM
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The steering noise (and subsequent rack movement) was all caused by my welded steering column joint. It appears I welded the original column joint while it was in a crooked state. This allowed it to transfer the out of round movement directly to the pinion shaft which then transferred it to the steering rack. I purchased a solid (and straight) non welded used replacement from APE which did the trick. I was not aware there were two manufacturers for the steering column joint (along with the column knuckles). They are compatible with each other with enough patience.
Very clever finding this issue!
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post #38 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-07-2016, 05:01 AM Thread Starter
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cooling fan and exhaust update

A few days ago, I pulled the down pipes off and welded a bung on each pipe. I wanted the option of moving the wide band oxygen sensor back and forth if need be. The Innovate gauge and sensor look to be of very high quality. I also connected the analog output from the gauge to the Gotech ecu and will set the car up to run closed loop eventually. Now that the exhaust was back on the car I was able to get it running and test my new radiator fan wiring configuration. Using a laser thermometer, I was quickly able to see what the coolant temps were at different locations. I had a suspicion that the factory coolant temp gauge read high. Both fans work as they should with the low speed coming on first triggered by the factory switch and the high speed coming on at a higher temperature triggered by the ecu. The engine idling in the garage with no airflow other than the fans kept a solid 185F on the gauge. The thermostat housing was 165F and the radiator hot side was 185F. Once I address a leaking exhaust gasket at the muffler its time for another round of test driving. The new wiring setup of the electric fans put much less stress on the alternator and appears to keep the engine cool enough. The ambient temperature was only 72, I will have to wait for warmer weather again to see if the current fan setup can cut it.


-Rob

Last edited by AvorioVeloce; 10-07-2016 at 05:49 AM.
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post #39 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-07-2016, 06:12 AM
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Man that sounds terrific just the way it is. That 24V motor has its own personality, alright. We owned an LS for 7 years, and I always loved the low grumble at idle. It would put the various luxury rice burners to shame, as they sat there and barely whispered!

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post #40 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-10-2016, 12:17 AM
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Don't do the resonator thing - I am planning to take them out of mine. They kill the character of the engine. I want some of that raspiness back!

Note - I have a 12v not 24v but still...

Marty Moose
'83 GTV6 - 164 12v 3.0 in!
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post #41 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-11-2016, 09:55 AM Thread Starter
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Man that sounds terrific just the way it is. That 24V motor has its own personality, alright. We owned an LS for 7 years, and I always loved the low grumble at idle. It would put the various luxury rice burners to shame, as they sat there and barely whispered!
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Don't do the resonator thing - I am planning to take them out of mine. They kill the character of the engine. I want some of that raspiness back!

Note - I have a 12v not 24v but still...
Here is a really short video from the other day driving. This wasn't even half throttle...

[IMG]IMG_1003 by robert.zuccaro, on Flickr[/IMG]
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-Rob

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post #42 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-11-2016, 10:30 AM
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Sooooo sweet! Never been a V6 that sounded better, IMO.
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Lexington, KY USA
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post #43 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-11-2016, 10:51 PM
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That's what I'm talking about!
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Marty Moose
'83 GTV6 - 164 12v 3.0 in!
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post #44 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-12-2016, 04:29 AM Thread Starter
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Sooooo sweet! Never been a V6 that sounded better, IMO.
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That's what I'm talking about!
Thanks guys, it sounds much better under power and even better at WOT. I chirped third gear with it, the power is intoxicating!

I'm hoping to get some better videos with our GoPro before it gets too cold outside. Stay tuned!
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-Rob
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post #45 of 62 (permalink) Old 10-13-2016, 05:42 AM Thread Starter
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I borrowed an oscilloscope with an amp clamp to see what the peak inrush current was from the radiator fan setup. I currently have one fan triggered at full speed from the stock radiator fan switch (on at 185). The second fan is triggered by the ECU and comes on around 200. One fan is enough to maintain an engine temperature of 185. A single biturbo fan has a peak of 30 amps when it starts up then it settles down to 13 amps. I also checked the current draw from fuse panel which was around 15 amps. This was with the headlights & fog lights on and heater on medium speed. The voltage never dropped below 13.8V during all of this while idling. With everything off voltage was 14.28V. The voltage regulator seems to be ok, but he current output of this alternator is very weak. The engine starts to run poorly when the alternator gets overloaded (with around 30amps of draw). It runs fine with the lights and the blower fan but as soon as the radiator fan kicks on its too much. I will be checking the cabling, but I doubt that's the issue. I think its time to find a better alternator. The engine came with a saab 9-3 alternator (90A) mounted to the passenger side with custom bracket. I will probably try that out first. I went with the original alternator so that we could install an AC compressor when we installed the AC setup. Hoping to get this figured out so we can get some more fall driving in.

I installed a new K&N xtream air filter, it has an opening on the top of it which is right at the cool air duct. I plan to make an enclosure around the filter to keep the heat away from it.



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-Rob
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