1985 GTV6 24V Build - Page 2 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

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post #16 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-10-2016, 11:09 AM
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Does the rack have play in the end bushes/sleaves? Maybe they need to be replaced?

Pete

'71 1750 Series 2 GTV:
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post #17 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-10-2016, 11:13 AM Thread Starter
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Does the rack have play in the end bushes/sleaves? Maybe they need to be replaced?

Pete
It previously had play on the passenger side. That is where the plastic bushing is. I found a replacement and installed it when the engine was out of the car. So the rack was torn apart, cleaned, re greased and assembled. Now the play is on the driver side of the rack, closest to the pinion and tension adjuster.

-Rob
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post #18 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-10-2016, 11:16 AM
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Rob,
Love the project. Great job .
I have the same fans as you, and the same issue. It just about stalls the engine when they come on at idle. Sometimes it does stall it. I am thinking about running just one fan, as you said, they move a ton of air. I was also thinking about using 2 different temp switches . The second one to come on at a high temperature only. I think one of these fans can handle most situations.

Joe C . Brooklyn NY
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post #19 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-10-2016, 11:54 AM Thread Starter
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Rob,
Love the project. Great job .
I have the same fans as you, and the same issue. It just about stalls the engine when they come on at idle. Sometimes it does stall it. I am thinking about running just one fan, as you said, they move a ton of air. I was also thinking about using 2 different temp switches . The second one to come on at a high temperature only. I think one of these fans can handle most situations.
Thanks!

After a few minutes of searching, there are a few decent looking fan speed regulating devices from Derale and Flex-a-lite. I want the capability of both fans at full speed, but it's overkill for normal driving conditions.

So your thinking of having one fan operating at normal temps (~190) and the second fan wired up to work at high temperatures (~220)? Thats could work as well. Spal still sells an identical fan setup to the Biturbo and they rate it at 37A. Thats a pretty big spike for the stock alternator, which is probably the issue. Thats whats nicer about the Derale fan controller as it ramps up fan speed and varies fan speed based on radiator outlet temps.

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post #20 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-11-2016, 06:13 AM Thread Starter
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Here is what I plan to do with the fans. I will keep the dual fan relay setup that we have already, but there will be a low speed and high speed fan. The high speed fan can use the stock 190F thermo switch in the radiator. The low speed fan will need a resistor installed and will be controlled by the ecu to come on at 180F. I will work on getting this wired up, address the steering slop, install the Innovate wideband sensor and get the car back on the road hopefully sometime this month.

-Rob
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post #21 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-11-2016, 08:30 AM
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Wonderful project !
Refer to photos 4401(1) and 4514(1), these show the dismantling of the standard GTV6 servo (booster) . Did the canister survive the exercise without distortion? I have been unsuccessfully searching for information on the innards of these servos so as to investigate braking problems - did you find info? Look forward to your reply
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post #22 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-11-2016, 09:03 AM Thread Starter
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Wonderful project !
Refer to photos 4401(1) and 4514(1), these show the dismantling of the standard GTV6 servo (booster) . Did the canister survive the exercise without distortion? I have been unsuccessfully searching for information on the innards of these servos so as to investigate braking problems - did you find info? Look forward to your reply
Thank you!

Our original booster was not working properly. When I was taking it apart the two halves were frozen together. I ended up bending and damaging the studs where the MC bolts to the servo/booster. Inside you could see where the brake fluid had been sitting for many years. The Spider booster came apart with little fuss and luckily nothing got damaged there. I would recommend gently prying up on the pinched perimeter of the booster shell to help in case of rust. The spring pressure inside these boosters is not dangerous. I was expecting something much worse than it actually was when the two halves separated. I used the original pedal box to hold the booster in place during the tear down. I have pictures of the tear down, PM me your email.

-Rob
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post #23 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-12-2016, 08:56 AM
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My own 24v GTV6 conversion is still a loooong way from completion. But I would be interested in knowing more about how you relocated the oil cap. I understand if left as-is, it may be a real pain to get at even with a long flex neck funnel. Did you get any pix as you were working on that detail?

Also, on my list of things that will need to be altered on the 24v engine, I'm detecting rumors that the distributor may need some monkeying with too. Anything major I'll need to be considering there?

Presently working on the pedal box and servo can stuff. We have used components for GTV6 and Alfetta setups. Had also heard that a servo booster from a BMW 3-series will work. Ordered one new BMW servo to check out. Nothing on that one came close to fitting, so we returned it for a different BMW unit (which hasn't come in quite yet). New Alfetta brake servos are now available again, but $200 more than a BMW unit. In case the second BMW unit doesn't work out, does anyone know the specifics on a BMW canister that worked for them... model, year, part number, etc? And were any major alterations required? Will go with a new Alfetta booster, if we can't find a proper BMW can soon.

Thanks,
Peter
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post #24 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-12-2016, 10:14 AM Thread Starter
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My own 24v GTV6 conversion is still a loooong way from completion. But I would be interested in knowing more about how you relocated the oil cap. I understand if left as-is, it may be a real pain to get at even with a long flex neck funnel. Did you get any pix as you were working on that detail?

Also, on my list of things that will need to be altered on the 24v engine, I'm detecting rumors that the distributor may need some monkeying with too. Anything major I'll need to be considering there?

Presently working on the pedal box and servo can stuff. We have used components for GTV6 and Alfetta setups. Had also heard that a servo booster from a BMW 3-series will work. Ordered one new BMW servo to check out. Nothing on that one came close to fitting, so we returned it for a different BMW unit (which hasn't come in quite yet). New Alfetta brake servos are now available again, but $200 more than a BMW unit. In case the second BMW unit doesn't work out, does anyone know the specifics on a BMW canister that worked for them... model, year, part number, etc? And were any major alterations required? Will go with a new Alfetta booster, if we can't find a proper BMW can soon.

Thanks,
Peter
The oil filler cap may be accessible but difficult unless moved. There are swaps out there that have not had this done. The oil filler cap on our engine was already moved by the previous owner of the engine so I don't have any pictures of how it was done. The coil cover looks like it was milled or maybe cut carefully and filed by hand.

-Rob
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post #25 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-12-2016, 10:38 AM
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Thanks ! Thought I had a good list of all the modifications required. But I'm expecting some minor ones to pop up as we get deeper in. Better to know as many as possible in advance. Hate to have to plug the motor in, only to take it out several times finding out the hard way.

Was also wondering if anyone had worked out a way to employ the stock GTV6 air box, as opposed to the K&N cone filter? I know the offset of the intake plenum to the P-side makes that a trickier task (if not impossible). But would like to have two options to choose from when I get to that point, if at all possible. Looks like your intake plenum may be the JungleJustice version.

Great job on your project BTW !!
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post #26 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-13-2016, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
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Thanks ! Thought I had a good list of all the modifications required. But I'm expecting some minor ones to pop up as we get deeper in. Better to know as many as possible in advance. Hate to have to plug the motor in, only to take it out several times finding out the hard way.

Was also wondering if anyone had worked out a way to employ the stock GTV6 air box, as opposed to the K&N cone filter? I know the offset of the intake plenum to the P-side makes that a trickier task (if not impossible). But would like to have two options to choose from when I get to that point, if at all possible. Looks like your intake plenum may be the JungleJustice version.

Great job on your project BTW !!
Thanks, I appreciate it! Its been years of research in the making. I wanted to use the stock airbox as well. I like that is nicely sealed off from the heat of the engine bay and definitely extracts colder air. If your using the stock 24v Motronic system you may be able to fit the air flow meter to the stock airbox depending on where you point the throttle body.

-Rob
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post #27 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-13-2016, 02:51 PM
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Thanks, I appreciate it! Its been years of research in the making. I wanted to use the stock airbox as well. I like that is nicely sealed off from the heat of the engine bay and definitely extracts colder air. If your using the stock 24v Motronic system you may be able to fit the air flow meter to the stock airbox depending on where you point the throttle body.
Your thought on that gives me some hope that it may be possible to go with the stock air box. As the intake plenum will need to be custom-made anyway, we can at least see what can be done from what we have to work with. With the offset to the P-side of the car making the 3D distances between AFM and throttle body shorter... might be able to figure out a way to shorten each end of the large rubber tube connecting them? Or to create a new solution?

Found a set of headers from a performance tuner in Eastern Europe. He had done the 24v 3.0 conversion into a GTV6 for a client. Then the owner decided quickly he wanted to go crazy with a wildly tuned 3.7 24v ALFA V6. So my headers were considered deluxe for a 3.0, but too restrictive for the 3.7 super engine. Got lucky on that bit!

Could have purchased his modified intake plenum too. But the inlet was left at the firewall end, with a 180 degree return. Cramped on space, and the connections would look like I took some parts from a clothes dryer and some from the PVC pipe rack at Home Depot. Hoping for a cleaner look.
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post #28 of 62 (permalink) Old 08-13-2016, 04:04 PM
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Exclamation Sweet

all I gotta say is, "that is sweet"

Nice build!
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post #29 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-08-2016, 08:01 AM Thread Starter
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I got around to rewiring the fans to trigger separately of off two different temp switches. FYI a single GTV6 stock radiator fan pulls 12 amps at full speed and the Maserati fan pulls almost 19 amps. Using the 164 fan resistor the same GTV6 fan pulled 6.2 amps. So almost half the current draw and a noticeable decrease in fan speed. This lower speed is probably fine for most driving conditions. If the second fan is triggered (at full speed) it will keep temps from escalating more. The slower fan is coming on at ~185F and off at ~165F. The second full speed fan has no resistor and comes on at 190F. I'm hoping this is all the engine needs to stay cool, thus not taxing the alternator unnecessarily. I think both fans at full speed was overkill anyways.

The steering rack noise/play issue still has me scratching my head a little bit. I pulled the driver side inner tie rod boot back and was watching the actual steering rack move vertically with a clicking noise when turning back and forth. The movement was maybe 1/16". I got under the car and removed the rack adjuster clip and screwed it in half turn. It got rid of some of the play but not all of it on the driver side. The passenger side has a new plastic bushing and zero play. After making the adjustment, the steering wheel was difficult to turn. That adjustment did not resolve my issue. I backed the adjuster out to where it was before and put the clip back in.

Then I had another person move the steering wheel back and forth while I was watching under the car. I saw the steering rack pinion portion flexing which coincided with the clicking and rack vertical movment. I will be making sure the four rack to cross member bolts are tight. Then I will be looking very closely at the welded steering column joint. My theory is that when I welded the steering column joint it was slightly crooked and I made it permanently crooked. Only before it had rubber that was flexible enough to give a little and now it cannot. This is a huge drawback of the welded column joints. The rack and pinion may just be worn out and beyond adjustment or repair as well. I will be swapping out the lower column joint with a good used one with no play and will go from there.

-Rob

Last edited by AvorioVeloce; 09-08-2016 at 08:05 AM.
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post #30 of 62 (permalink) Old 09-08-2016, 08:28 PM
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Rob, nice job on the installation - very clean!

My advice is to keep the fans cranking full blast to keep that puppy cool. All of the mapping to date for that ECU was done at 185 to 190... I'd rather install an IAC motor from a 164 or a BMW or something and make associated adjustments in the mapping to keep the idle rpm stable that way.

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