12-14-2011, 10:17 AM
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Greg Gordon intake kit is great!
We put a Greg Gordon intake kit on my singer Mikes GTV6 'Goldie", and we love it. Easy install, definite performance improvement. Sounds a lot cooler too, and us being musicians, that's Huge!!
The pic here is when we were almost done, a few more clamps to go. Greg suggested that we turn the AFM down 90 degrees for better clearance, going to try that too.
Super high quality, the new welded junction is sweet, nicely done.
I highly recommend this kit, gonna pick up a couple more for other GTV6's I have.
I got his fuel line kit too, will report on it when I install it soon.
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The " Save the Rusty Alfa Society"
43 Alfas at the moment [ I think], I'll be able to tell better when the snow melts
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12-14-2011, 11:38 AM
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Location: SE Michigan
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 Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyMetalAlfa
We put a Greg Gordon intake kit on my singer Mikes GTV6 'Goldie", and we love it. Easy install, definite performance improvement. Sounds a lot cooler too, and us being musicians, that's Huge!!
The pic here is when we were almost done, a few more clamps to go. Greg suggested that we turn the AFM down 90 degrees for better clearance, going to try that too.
Super high quality, the new welded junction is sweet, nicely done.
I highly recommend this kit, gonna pick up a couple more for other GTV6's I have.
I got his fuel line kit too, will report on it when I install it soon.
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Glenn,
How did you verify the definite performance increase? Dyno? 0-60? 1/4 mile?? G-tech or similar?
I'm gathering some pieces for a project on the Milano and by necessity will be changing the intake, but haven't decided where to put the intake mouth and filter yet.
Having just returned from the dyno to do some baseline runs with stock airbox, I'm curious how much warm air is actually allowed in by having a large cone in the engine bay like that (or if its an issue at all once car is moving).
I wonder where gains are actually made over the stock airbox (no bellows like stock rubber elbow, larger surface area of filter, less restrictive filter element, etc. etc., combination of all, and how much of gain is realized due to flow vs. temperature).
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Rob
Alfas first, then everything else.
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12-14-2011, 12:23 PM
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Hey Rob.
We based our opinion on the "feel" of the car. Mike, like me, is very intune with the way the car is feeling, so just like when you put on a free'er flowing exhaust, there is a noticable increase in 'pull'. Not a huge amount extra, but noticable. Not very scientific I know.
There is more chance for air to flow in to the intake, the stock air box on a GTV6 has a very small inlet, much smaller than the AFM. I have seen some spirited discussions here on the BB about 'cone filters' versus stock as to performance increase.
I think when you are moving that area of the engine compartment gets a certain amount of fresh air flow naturally, as the warm air around the engine is pushed back, down and out. I think modding a larger opening to behind the grill would help keep air intake temps down.
Is there a large difference in performance determined by the warm/cold air induction?
All that said, I like the kit, it sounds better and looks cooler too!
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The " Save the Rusty Alfa Society"
43 Alfas at the moment [ I think], I'll be able to tell better when the snow melts
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12-14-2011, 04:32 PM
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Al Mitchell did dyno tests with his GTV6 that showed a gain of several HP with a cold air box. He may have Greg's intake tube as part of his setup. It looks similar but it is not red. Al does not use an AFM.
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Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government strong enough to take everything you have.
Last edited by alfaparticle; 12-14-2011 at 04:35 PM.
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12-14-2011, 04:46 PM
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But Mad North-Northwest
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HeavyMetalAlfa
We based our opinion on the "feel" of the car. Mike, like me, is very intune with the way the car is feeling, so just like when you put on a free'er flowing exhaust, there is a noticable increase in 'pull'. Not a huge amount extra, but noticable. Not very scientific I know.
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You own a butt dyno! 
Butt Dyno [ARSE411] - $399.95 : KaleCoAuto, Hard to find automotive items!
In all seriousness, there's a real psychological phenomenon where adding engine or exhaust noise makes the car "feel" faster. I'm not saying the intake doesn't add HP, honestly I have no idea. But real, actual, before/after dyno data would be nice...
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Tom
1991 Spider
1987 Milano Gold
1963 Giulia Spider (1750 engine)
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12-14-2011, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gubi
You own a butt dyno!
[In all seriousness, there's a real psychological phenomenon where adding engine or exhaust noise makes the car "feel" faster. I'm not saying the intake doesn't add HP, honestly I have no idea. But real, actual, before/after dyno data would be nice... |
As long as it feels faster shouldn't really matter if it adds HP.
If a tree falls in a forest.....
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12-14-2011, 05:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racingswim2006
Glenn,
I'm curious how much warm air is actually allowed in by having a large cone in the engine bay like that (or if its an issue at all once car is moving).
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Actually, I have really good data on that. (I have a Nordskog plenum air temp gauge). If the car is moving air temps with my system are within 5F of the factory box. Glenn's filter is mounted a little high. I normally rotate the AFM 90 deg. so the whole thing can move down placing the filter right by the fresh air duct. If the car sits still, air temp will rise as much as 20F above the factory box.
The power increase comes from the increased air pressure in the intake plenum. You can easily measure this with a boost or vacuum gauge. The increase in air pressure is very significant. It always amazes me how many people want to talk about air temperature, when pressure has a much larger effect on performance. Perhaps that's because it's easier to understand temperature.
Quote:
Originally Posted by racingswim2006
I wonder where gains are actually made over the stock airbox (no bellows like stock rubber elbow, larger surface area of filter, less restrictive filter element, etc. etc., combination of all, and how much of gain is realized due to flow vs. temperature).
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The gains are entirely due to an increase in flow, and thus manifold pressure. Steve Rosser (the guy who wrote the GTV6/Milano Megasquirt manual) did a comparison of my system vs the stock system with a flat panel K&N filter and his results almost exactly matched mine. He posted the actual pressure and temperature numbers a few years ago at the gtv6 site. Also "Overheard Cams" magazine reviewed the system and found the power gains to be greater than I claim.
I should also mention that if you want to make your own system, I sell all the needed parts. We now have the largest selection of silicon couplers in the U.S. and I think we are the only supplier that has the elbow that fits the GTV6/Milano throttle body.
Greg,
Silicone Hose Kits
OKINJECTORS--Fuel Injector Cleaning and Remanufacturing Services in Oklahoma
P.S. Thanks Glenn!
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12-14-2011, 06:38 PM
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You are right Gubi, the Aural and Sensory input truely and deservedly affect the honest enjoyment factor, but there is also a real increase of performance, however small it may be percieved as.
Sir Greg, that is my thought, the difference in air temperature does not give enough of an air density/pressure difference to matter. In the real world.
You want higher intake pressure type performance, force feed it. And Greg knows more about that than most!
The truth is, these amazing Alfa V6's have an amazing performance/thrill ratio, and are easily massaged to give a little more.
And they Sing, they truely do.
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The " Save the Rusty Alfa Society"
43 Alfas at the moment [ I think], I'll be able to tell better when the snow melts
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12-14-2011, 06:49 PM
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Temperature and pressure both change air density and that is what affects power. You have to state pressure gains and temperature reductions to be able to determine which one dominates. I posted a link once to some tests that were done with ram tubes on a Kawasaki motorcycle. There are gains to be made if it is done right and the air speeds are high.
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Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government strong enough to take everything you have.
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12-15-2011, 10:04 AM
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If a butt dyno can put a smile on your face. Thats all that counts.
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1987 Milano Platinum Modified, 2001 Mercedes Benz SLK 230 AMG Kompressor
2001 Powerstroke 14' Cube Van 430hp, 890lbs tq, Its a Beast
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12-15-2011, 10:54 AM
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I installed Greg's fuel line kit last year. It's great, especially those tight curves at the pump and filter. Highly recommended!
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Ecce homo qui est faba.
1982 GTV6
1973 GTV2000
1971 Karmann Ghia Vert
1982 Land Cruiser
1988 Land Cruiser
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12-15-2011, 03:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alfaparticle
Temperature and pressure both change air density and that is what affects power.
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That's exactly correct, my point is that pressure is a much bigger deal. For example, with all other factors equal, an increase in air pressure of 10% will give a power increase of 10%. That's huge. For comparison a change drop in intake temps from 100F to 80F would be a 20% drop but with all other factors equal will only increase power about 2%.
Greg,
Silicone Hose Kits
OKINJECTORS--Fuel Injector Cleaning and Remanufacturing Services in Oklahoma
Last edited by Greg Gordon; 12-15-2011 at 04:35 PM.
Reason: fixed a minor mistake, thanks Jordan!
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12-15-2011, 03:47 PM
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Greg, I think you mean that an increase in air pressure of 10%, not temp, right?
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Jordan L.
Silver '83 GTV6 - daily driver
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12-15-2011, 04:36 PM
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Yup, that's right. Thanks for pointing it out, I fixed the post.
Greg
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12-15-2011, 06:56 PM
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Hi Greg,
Is the pressure gain a result of less pressure drop in the system or are you measuring pressures that are higher than atmospheric? Do you have actual numbers? I know that the pressure increases from ram effect are modest.
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Ed Prytherch
79 Spider
85 GTV6 3L
A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government strong enough to take everything you have.
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