how does a 156 end up in a junkyard in Florida? - Page 6 - Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums

  #76 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2005, 10:26 PM
onethumb's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 745
Platform is really more based on the manufacturing part of it---basically if the main components can be built on the same (or similar) assembly line, then it is a shared platform. Generally, this includes the main parts of the chassis, engine variants, transmission, basic suspension mounting points and so forth. There is usually a lot of flexability, especially when lengthening or shrinking the wheelbase, or adding something like an independant rear suspension in place of a live axle. General engine/trans location is fixed, as is width and the firewall location and other basic stuff. Beyond that, you can change a lot. As an example, I can recall trying to design around the late 90's GM platforms, and always complaining about the long front overhangs, because the engine/trans location was fixed in that platform, and because of the location the overhangs were necessarily long. Aside from that, we had a lot of freedom to do whatever, but the engine location as related to the front wheels was fixed, as was the idea it had to be FWD. The windshield location (and thus the A-pillar) was also largely dictated by the firewall position, since you didn't want to give up any more space than you have to. When you start to put all these things together, you start to see a basic form dictated before you even start the creative process. That's a platform.

make sense?
__________________
Stacy Faught- 2010 Audi TTS, 2012 Fiat 500 Abarth, 1978 Alfetta Berlina, 1983 Alfetta GTV-6.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
  #77 (permalink)  
Old 10-14-2005, 10:43 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: jamaica estates, new york city
Posts: 366
To our friend Aghevli: It takes great wisdom, skill and confidence, as President, to pick a staff "smarter than you" but then Reagan was Pres. and they were not. You must not have read the accounts in the slick-paper newsmagazines about Pres. Reagan, after he died, that showed in color photos, his speeches, written in longhand on legal pads. Most commentators said his best speech was, "The Boys of Point Du Hoc", about the Normandy invasion on 6 June 44, written by himself. President Reagan was a difficult man to understand, but he reached out to and was received by the American people in a way not seen or felt since Franklin Roosevelt. In order to better understand Pres. Reagan I would suggest that you read, "Dutch" by Edmund Morris.

David
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #78 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2005, 04:04 AM
BigSwede's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: 58 Deg. North
Posts: 1,898
Send a message via ICQ to BigSwede
Quote:
Originally Posted by onethumb
The 9-2X is an example of the dieing out remnants of the "old" GM. The 9-7 was never even supposed to see the light of day, but obviously things changed since I was working in the design studios in 2001. I'm not terribly impressed with the new 9-3, either....
The odd thing about it is that the Saab studio overseas pushed for the 9-2x and the 9-7, and vetoed a rather nice design from the Detroit studios for a bland shape that was created over there....I'll never understand...

Re: BigSwede: I'll start with the SUV thing---the same is true in the US. The station wagon of the 60's and 70's led to the minivan of the 80's and early 90's which led to the SUV of the late 90's and now. Same demographic buying them, hauling the same stuff. The difference is that the US is BIG, and we have more stuff to haul around per capita, so strapping a couch to the roof of the Clio just isn't going to cut it.

I'm well aware that it's difficult to take a pre-existing euro car and convert it. But in the early design phase it's NOT difficult at all to allow for multi-country use. We did in on EVERY car I worked on at GM. Of course, most Opel/Vux/Holden cars are built on common GM platforms, so it has to be in mind from the beginning. From what I can gather, most of the new or newer (post-US) Alfa platforms were based on US-compatible platforms from Saab or GM. The 166, 156 (and thereby the 147) were all designed so that Saab could use them too---eventually Saab pulled out to use the Epsilon platform for the 9-3. Most Alfas in current production could have easily been altered ever so slightly in the beginning phases and been legal for US import. I would even bet that 156 could pass all the fed requirements except for having dot-approved glass and lights, which is no more difficult than sourcing them from a dot-approved supplier with the same print the euro suppliers use.

Hey, I kinda got back on-topic!
Interesting, I was in on the 256 as well, where did you work back in -01?

That chant that US is big I'll never get, Europe is small? How many do you know that drive across the US with a sofa on their roof and why not hire a trailer instead? Or get some moving company to move all your stuff if you have a small car.

Unless you think about collision demands and really design for them from the start you will have difficulties making a existing design pass inspection for the US. That is the truth. And there is loads of stuff that are different for the US apart from the stuff you mentioned, all active safety stuff like belt tensioners and airbags and such and countless other stuff that they "need" to put in because the US buyers demand it otherwise it's dead on the selling floor.
I sooo liked retrofitting the OnStar to the 9-5. :P

The 147 and 156 is not based on anything even remotely associated with Saab or GM, that was the 164. 147/156 is their own. 9-3 was based on Epsilon from the first sketch, the new premium platform (Alfa 159) was going to be the new 9-5 before they remembered they didn't actually have any money and went back to their yearly-facelift procedure instead.
__________________
Mats Strandberg

GTV 2000 -77 [URL=http://www.alfapower.nu/gallery/gtv]Pics[/URL] <= These are picture links you know...
75 Turbo -87 *sold* [URL=http://www.alfapower.nu/gallery/75T-Modificata]Pics[/URL] <=
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #79 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2005, 10:13 AM
alfa75 88's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah and Aix, France.
Posts: 1,756
It's too bad though, about Saab.. They've really lost their identity. Hopefully, this is just a way to get them money (the 9-2 and the 9-7) and they'll soon go back to desigining theier own cars.. I really like their older cars (pre-GM)
__________________
www.ranwhenparked.net
Renault/CitroŽn/Alfa/Fiat/Mercedes/Volkswagen.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #80 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2005, 12:02 PM
johnei's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,219
BigSwede I think the idea is that our towns/cities are spread far apart so while people here may not drive across the country often with lots of stuff they will drive a few hours regularly with lots of crap in the SUV. Whether its 7 hours up to go skiing for the weekend or running errands to get to the whatever thats an hour away.
I doubt you're going to run down to Denmark to get something - but some people I know routinely make runs up and down California with stuff.

Anyways - it will be interesting to see what happens to Saab. Kerkorian and his Tracinda group now owns about 10% of GM stock. Apparently someone in Tracinda is looking closely at Wagoners job performance and he may not be around for much longer. Apparently they're thinking some of the assets like Hummer and Saab are non essential and consequently may be sold off.

Last edited by johnei; 10-15-2005 at 12:06 PM.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #81 (permalink)  
Old 10-15-2005, 02:45 PM
onethumb's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 745
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSwede
Interesting, I was in on the 256 as well, where did you work back in -01?
GM CBC Studio---we did the intial concepts for darn near everything that didn't come out of a brand studio. We were the "media friendly" studio, and everything was done in VR--no clay. I left for warm weather and shorter working hours in california in early 2001.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSwede
That chant that US is big I'll never get, Europe is small? How many do you know that drive across the US with a sofa on their roof and why not hire a trailer instead? Or get some moving company to move all your stuff if you have a small car.
Yes, Europe is small!

Maybe you won't get the idea about the US being large until you drive across it. It's 3000 miles from coast to coast, whereas it is only about 1500 miles from Stockholm to Rome. It is relatively common for people here to drive over 1000 miles to go somewhere on vacation, multiple times a year. Even the 250 mile drive through the desert from LA to Las Vegas is bumper to bumper packed every weekend. I go 3-4 times a year, and commonly go the same distance up to San Francisco too. People here drive more, and further because it's easy--no fences, borders or passports to worry about. Try taking a group of 4 to Las Vegas....it's possible in a Saab 9-5, but it leaves little room for a long weekend's worth of clothes. It's a much nicer drive in an Escelade. Plus the cops can't see in through the windows while the passengers begin the "pre-Vegas warm up drinking"


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSwede
Unless you think about collision demands and really design for them from the start you will have difficulties making a existing design pass inspection for the US. That is the truth. And there is loads of stuff that are different for the US apart from the stuff you mentioned, all active safety stuff like belt tensioners and airbags and such and countless other stuff that they "need" to put in because the US buyers demand it otherwise it's dead on the selling floor.
I sooo liked retrofitting the OnStar to the 9-5. :P
I'm going to repeat myself: "I'm well aware that it's difficult to take a pre-existing euro car and convert it. But in the early design phase it's NOT difficult at all to allow for multi-country use."


Quote:
Originally Posted by BigSwede
The 147 and 156 is not based on anything even remotely associated with Saab or GM, that was the 164. 147/156 is their own. 9-3 was based on Epsilon from the first sketch, the new premium platform (Alfa 159) was going to be the new 9-5 before they remembered they didn't actually have any money and went back to their yearly-facelift procedure instead.

Actually, the 156 platform was originally gong to be shared with 9-3, before Epsilon was finished. There were a lot of growing pains and delays with the Epsilon platform, and so GM went to Fiat and arranged for the platform to be accomodated to the 9-3 if necessary. They never really wanted to do that, though...they much prefered the Epsilon. When it finally looked like Epsilon was gong to be a go in time for the new 9-3 to be designed around it, they backed out of using the 156 platform. THEN they started the design process. So the 156 plaform was definately designed with the flexability in mind to export to the US. The car itself isn't, of course, since Alfa had no intent on bringing it here, but it COULD have been, since the underpinnings would have allowed for it. That was a very frustrating time in the GM studios because we never knew when we were going to be able to use Epsilon for stuff. It became a joke after a while---Epsilon was going to be ready at about the same time as it's successor. Don't even get me started on Delta...
__________________
Stacy Faught- 2010 Audi TTS, 2012 Fiat 500 Abarth, 1978 Alfetta Berlina, 1983 Alfetta GTV-6.
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #82 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2005, 12:40 AM
ALFA Abnormale's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Edmonds, WA
Posts: 51
Send a message via AIM to ALFA Abnormale
As far as the size of Europe compared to the U.S. I think my sister's experiences as an exhange student in Austria say it all. There were some wild fires in Montana while she was in Austria that apparently made the news across the Atlantic. We were living in Virginia at the time, and she had numerous people ask her if the wildfires in Montana were threatening her house in Virginia. Another time one of her Austrian friends was going on vacation to New York City with her family, and her friend's mother was talking about how they were thinking about renting a car and driving out to Hollywood for the day. Huh? Now I'm not saying that Austrians are stupid by any means. It's just that most of the countries in Europe are about the size of one of our average sized states. I've heard people say that we're running out of room here in the U.S., but after driving across the whole country...there's a whole lot of nothing out there (especially Wyoming and the Dakotas). Like it's been said in this thread before "what does this have to do with a 156 in a Florida junkyard?" or the price of tea in China for that matter, I don't know, but this has developed into a somewhat interesting thread.
__________________
Why do the British drink their beer warm? Because their refrigerators are made by Lucas. Lucas Electrics, the Prince of Darkness. Now with three settings! Off, dim, and flicker!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #83 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2005, 04:00 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: jamaica estates, new york city
Posts: 366
BigSwede: Let me describe this years driving, so far. And all this just confined to the eastern portion of the USA, driving from New York City. I attended a family reunion in North Carolina, returning via Washington, DC to see the new Smithsonian Air & Space Museum. Mileage 1200 (1920 kms). Two trips to the Watkins Glen race circuit. Mileage 570 (912 kms). Three trips to the Lime Rock race circuit. Mileage 600 (960 kms). Total travel 2370 (3792 kms). And I was never more than 250 miles (400 kms) from the Atlantic Ocean at any time. Only 2750 miles (4400 kms) to get to the Pacific Ocean.

I hope that you will come to the USA to see for yourself. If you come first to New York City, I will pick you up at your hotel on a Sunday morning so that you can meet the members of the NYAROC at our Breakfast, including your countryman Nick Ericson, who lives in Manhattan.

David
Director, NYAROC
66 GTA & 81 GTV6
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #84 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2005, 12:48 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Portsmouth, New Hampshire
Posts: 2,097
Send a message via AIM to 81gtv6 Send a message via Yahoo to 81gtv6
156 in a junkyard?
Attached Images
 
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #85 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2005, 01:07 PM
johnei's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,219
Thumbs up

That's awesome!
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #86 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2005, 01:51 PM
BigSwede's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: 58 Deg. North
Posts: 1,898
Send a message via ICQ to BigSwede
YES! Pissing contest! (just kidding)

David, I'm sure the average American doesn't drive like you do?
I have driven to Italy in a regular car several times, four people in a 164? No problems. Round trip to France with luggage for two weeks including two full sets of golf equipment in a Saab 9000? No problems... I don't know how many trips I have done to my parents this year but it's close to ten and its a 700Km round trip and Several trips of trips to Stockholm 1100Km round trip. Denmark? Sure, we drive to Germany just to buy beer... A friend is planning to go buy a GTV that is about 1000Km, one way. We drive quite a lot too.

onethumb: Cool, we did some clay for the 256 but they kept changing the platform so the design was never even close to a freeze.

Fences borders and platforms? You haven't been to Europe I take it? Usually We pass the borders at 130Km/H... Unless you pass outof the EU that is but EU-citizens never get pulled over or have to open up the trunk or anything, just leave your passport visible in the front window and they wave you by...
And about the tinted windows, you can drink as much as you like in the car here as long as the driver is sober, and we do.
__________________
Mats Strandberg

GTV 2000 -77 [URL=http://www.alfapower.nu/gallery/gtv]Pics[/URL] <= These are picture links you know...
75 Turbo -87 *sold* [URL=http://www.alfapower.nu/gallery/75T-Modificata]Pics[/URL] <=
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #87 (permalink)  
Old 10-16-2005, 03:00 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: jamaica estates, new york city
Posts: 366
Mats: Yes I have been to Europe & North Africa as a tourist. However the only driving was in the UK. My first car was an old right hand drive MG TC, so I fit right in.

My driving is not atypical. Where I live in the Northeast, what we call the Boston-New York-Washington corridor, the cities are , by our standards, close together. Driving between my home and Washington, DC for example is rather routine. However, in the Mid-West and especially the West (Cowboys and Karl May) car travel over long distances is necessary. I took the train home when I returned from Army service in the summer of 1959, Seattle, Washington to New York City. Pacific coast to Atlantic coast, through Chicago. That train journey took 3 days and nights. Thats big.

Come here and visit, you will have a good time.

David
NYAROC
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #88 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2005, 01:09 AM
BigSwede's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: 58 Deg. North
Posts: 1,898
Send a message via ICQ to BigSwede
It would be nice, but I always seem to lack the money for something like that.
Got any tracks?
__________________
Mats Strandberg

GTV 2000 -77 [URL=http://www.alfapower.nu/gallery/gtv]Pics[/URL] <= These are picture links you know...
75 Turbo -87 *sold* [URL=http://www.alfapower.nu/gallery/75T-Modificata]Pics[/URL] <=
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
  #89 (permalink)  
Old 10-17-2005, 08:31 AM
JudgeDredd's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: SE Bama
Posts: 1,661
We drove 600 km one way, 1200 km roundtrip, to attend the Atlanta Italian Car Day weekend before last, just to give you an indication. Last weekend we drove 350 Km roundtrip each day to attend a soccer tournament, and that was considered a local tournament, LOL.
__________________
2010 Camaro SS (Traded in so I can afford an Alfa), 2004 Chevy Z71
2001 Ducati S4 Monster, 2011 Chevy Tahoe Z71
Digg this Post!Add Post to del.icio.usBookmark Post in TechnoratiFurl this Post!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Alfa Romeo Bulletin Board & Forums forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.
Email Address:

Log-in

Human Verification

In order to verify that you are a human and not a spam bot, please enter the answer into the following box below based on the instructions contained in the graphic.



Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off










Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 2002-2011 AlfaBB.com All Rights Reserved.



SEO by vBSEO 3.3.2