Alfa Romeo Forums banner

The full Monty - D Peterson Carson City NV

215K views 1K replies 73 participants last post by  jacksonclassics 
#1 ·
So, why hasn't that title been used here before? Never mind.

As with my 102 Roadster, this thread will essentially be a blog of what's been done, what's needed, emotional blurtings, and puddles of consciousness.

It is expected to arrive in the next 3 days, which will be when the hands-on work begins. It appears to be a happy enough driver, so hopefully no pictures required of open-heart surgery.

First item spotted during pre-buy inspection. I need the cover that protects the Spica drive belt. Picture below.

It may be that restoring a 102 is about the only thing that might make a Montreal seem relatively painless. Hope so.
 

Attachments

See less See more
1
#3 ·
Hello Don,

all the best with your car.

I am not using the cover ( On a 4 cylinder ) Wes suggested to do so, because the risk that something gets trapped between cover, belt and pulley is fairly high.
And without the cover it is much easier to check injectiontiming. I am driving without the cover for eight years now.

Salutations from the cold and snowy Baltic sea

Bernhard
 
#4 ·
Bernhard,

Thanks for the note. Clearly, the car works fine without the cover. I have not yet accumulated the sort of jungle wisdom regarding the Monty one gets from years of familiarity. One of the comments I read in my research was to use some sort of seal to make sure water did not come through the false air-inlet in the hood, as this tended to corrode the Spica pump. It is mounted on top of the V8 rather than down low as on the 4-cylinder cars. Thus, there is much less chance of picking up something from the road and jamming the pulleys, and protection from water might be the greater risk.

Anyway - if someone has a spare or take-off from a parts car, I'd be a buyer.

Thanks,
 
#7 ·
Again - my novice status may be showing...

The "Essential Companion" mentions sealing up the scoop with something like silicone. The blanking plate in the inlet is not a perfect seal. It is entirely possible, even easy, for water to get past the edges of the plate and fall directly onto the Spica pump. This happens even with an unmodified air "inlet". Given that these pumps often live a long time down near the road in a 115 car, I doubt this is an immediate problem, but I'm starting the long road to completion of what is already a pretty nice car.

On a new subject...

Would anyone care to share their experience with the Alfaholics handling kit? I've got to do some bushing/ball joint work on the front, so this would be the time to consider it. I'm surprised they have gone up with the front swaybar diameter while keeping the rear stock, as this tends to increase the understeer. I'm happy with a cruiser instead of autocrosser handling, in any case.

My car has no AC (that suits me fine), so I also wonder if their work is optimized for the slightly heavier front end. Anyway - comments on this are appreciated. I'll be ordering the wheels this week, so might as well lump it all together.
 
#8 ·
Hi Don, I would definitely recommend changing out the suspension, the car will handle so much better without body lean and brake dive. I don't think you need to get the parts overseas though. I put Ward & Deane front and rear springs along with Koni's all around, have them in the car since '97. I do believe the Centerline springs have the same spring rate and may well be Ward & Deane springs. I left the original front and rear sway bars and I'm totally happy with the package. The last 6-7 years now I am using poly bushings all around except the trailing arms and like it even more. Tonight I'll try to post a photo of the car taking a corner at speed. Peter.
 
#12 ·
About 10 minutes of Googling seems to indicate that Ward and Deane are no more as a business. Alas, time marches on.

The comments on the handling kits seem mixed. I'm content with a "Grand Touring" car rather than more aggressive handling. I definitely do not want to lower the car in any significant way, as this brings too many other compromises for driving in the land of speed bumps and poor road design. I've always mounted Koni shocks just as a matter of course, and found that improved things significantly. Perhaps this decision will come down to the condition of various things upon inspection.

Truck driver called last night to tell me he's broke down in some desert town north of Palm Springs. One repair shop the size of a 2-car garage with two Mexicans offering to do the repairs - if parts can be found. Description of the town sounded like something out of "From Dusk till Dawn", so I wonder if I'll see my car alive?

I have little to no history or documentation on this car. It was supposedly purchased from Bob Cozza in 2006. There are rumors of a bare-metal respray, fresh Spica pump, etc. The seller said it has zero on the odometer when he got it, but a friend of his recalls differently. I tend to doubt the respray. It is is very good condition, and my perhaps not overly thorough inspection did not reveal any indication of a repaint. No way to know regarding the pump. It currently has 32000km on the clock, but again no way to know what that tells us. Clearly it has more miles than that.

Anyone familiar with this bright orange car previously owned by Cozza - feel free to share whatever "truth" you might possess.
 
#13 ·
Can anyone recommend the current favorite source for Koni's, and what might be the part numbers? The Monty is not listed on the Koni web catalog. Are they the same as for the 105/115, given the shared chassis? I can't recall where I bought my set for the 115 I had. Case of CRS I guess.
 
#16 ·
The car arrived this morning. No drama. Now registered in Nevada, and I have met with the body shop and upholsterer. Now begins the job of finding and acquiring the many bits that need replacement.

Noticed today:

Headrest adjustment plastic guards that go on the upper back of the seats and protect the entry for the adjusting knob for the headrests.

Anyone have pictures of the panel at the very back of the rear hatch opening that covers the latching mechanisms? I can't tell if what I've got is a crude clean-up with black vinyl, or just aged Alfa vinyl that needs replacing or tidying.

Are there guards that go around the slits that the rear hatch gas struts go through?

Stainless/chrome inserts for the door arm rests.

Plate that the radio fits into. Mine has the upper two corners broken off, presumably from a hamfisted effort to remove it. Might be something I can fabricate

Comments on how to remove the dash top to have it re-done.

I got stopped about 5 times today by people wanting to ask or talk about the car. The first guy pulled off the road to where I was refueling and told me about the 5 or 6 Alfas he's had. These included a 1600 Speciale and a 1300 Sprint Confortevole. He nearly gagged when I told him what SS's were selling for these days.

The NAPA guys are just shaking their heads. They got used to me when I was restoring the 102, so have stopped asking "what were you thinking!!!?"
 
#18 ·
Anybody know the right way to get the dash top off for recover/repair? I really hate to grope around with these things and find there was one hidden screw that I didn't know about, and break something.
 
#19 · (Edited)
Don, do we get to see a photo of your Monty:)
I had an orange one, absolutely suits the car down to a tee, imo.

BTW are you still looking for a front screen? As you know there are people in Germany that sell them (OKP, Bertelsbeck etc at about 755 euros inc. VAT), but as you also know, no-one really wants to ship them out abroad!

The front screen rubber is a whopping 300-370 euros over here (depending where you shop), so try to get that out in one piece!

However there is an italian ebayer, that sells them for 690 euros (this includes the italian VAT, so that you should get knocked off, and in Italy it is 21%....PS. it's going up to 22% in July 2013)
He doesn't actually say if screens are clear or green tint, but says he ships worldwide in a proper wood crate especially made for fragile items.
check out ebay# 290700721256
Apparently for one screen, shipping is 360 euros to the US (according to his ebay page) and 60 euros for each screen thereafter (I take it he means he custom makes the crate for however many screens need to be sent)

anyway, just FYI:)
 
#20 ·
Dom (is that your name? Just checking).

Thanks for the note. I'll check out the Italian guy. I had assumed that my regular sources (OKP, Afra, etc) would ship a screen, as they've always shipped everything else I needed. I'm guessing they've had breakage issues. I note that Mr. Fiat lists the screen also, and although he costs a bit more, it does put the point of contact in the US. He clearly orders as required, so guess he's got someone who will ship them over. I won't need the screen for a few months, so transit time isn't a big problem. There is a smallish impact crack in the lower right corner which will be fine while I'm sorting out the mechanical needs. We'll replace the screen during and after the repaint.

I'll post a couple of pics later today, along with the results of my two day's research into his condition and needs.
 
#21 ·
For about $15k in repairs, it should be worth about $5k more than I paid for it.

No worries. Time will repay that in fun touring and a slow appreciation, or faster if our US Dollar takes the long-anticipated dump.

Many years ago a friend flew over to Russia to buy one of their state of the art aerobatic airplanes from a club that could no longer afford theirs in the new post-Communist world. Quite intentionally, he chose the one that showed the most wear and tear. This was not because it was cheaper - it wasn't - but because he felt that the advanced wear indicated which airplane in the aeroclub flew the best, and therefore got the most use.

My new car's front suspension is very well worn. In spite of being told that all of the tie rod ends had been replaced, two of them are totally shot, with one being so bad I can imagine it coming apart within not too many more miles. Caster bushings wiped, of course. No apparent play in ball joints or caster joints, but that will become more clear when I get things apart and the spring tension released.

All rubber hoses connecting to the fuel pumps swollen and some leaking. That explains the smell.

Driver's door has been replaced at some point, and needs better hanging and countouring. That'll be part of the body work.

No apparent rust throughout the chassis, but a little bondo behind the driver's door in the wheel well area. Probably for the same reason that required a new door.

Minor rust hole on the edge of the spare tire wheel. A little bubbling in the panels behind the doors and under the air slits in the side. Both easy fixes.

Little curb rash under the front end, but surprisingly limited.

Interior needs a refresh, with various trim parts, cracked dash, etc needing replacement or repair. So far I haven't found any major missing components, and what is missing seems available from various sources.

Today I drain the oil. If it warms just a bit, I'll try to spray clean the engine bay and some of the under carriage. It's winter here.
 
#29 ·
No apparent rust throughout the chassis, but a little bondo behind the driver's door in the wheel well area. Probably for the same reason that required a new door.

[...] A little bubbling in the panels behind the doors and under the air slits in the side. Both easy fixes.
Ooops. The area just below the ventilation slits is a trouble spot on many Montreals. The water is supposed to drain through a hose at the bottom of the slits and evacuate out trhough a tiny slit in the beams - behind the outer rocker cover. Problem is, this slit quickly fills up with gunk, at which point the water has no other option than to just sit there or evaporate.

Try emptying a glass of water through the ventilation slit secind from the bottom. If the water does not come out again anywhere, you may have a problem.

My Montreal looked just like you describe; a couple of tiny bubbles in the paint, some bondo from previous repairs but otherwise very fine.

This is what I ended up doing:


And this is how the metal looked like behind all that still beautiful paint:


This is what used to be the rear jack point. It sits directly under the rust prone area:
 
#22 · (Edited)
I've spent the morning under the car draining fluids and refilling same. Job not yet done.

Without detailed guidance that I could find elsewhere, I chose to drain the oil tank by detaching the hose at the engine block from below. The adapter fitting came out of the block with the hose fitting spinning inside of the hose. Not what I expected. It would appear that the hose fitting has been over-tightened onto the adapter fitting, as nothing I could do would get them to separate. Limited leverage down under the car, so that investigation will require removing the hose up to a bench vise. I've seen similar systems where a tiny leak would result in a mechanic (to use the term loosely) over tightening a conical fitting until it stopped. This is a vacuum line, so although the hose allowed the end fitting to spin, there was no sign of a leak. As I'm running a load of oil through the engine to help clean years of neglect, my next step will be to remove the hose entirely and check its condition. I'm guessing new rubber everywhere is in order on this car. Can someone advise the correct way to get at the hose fitting at the bottom of the tank as well as the screw-in tank filter? I'm guessing one removes the tank?

I am also wondering about the status of my differential. We have plenty of snow and ice on the driveway, and the car is happy to spin one wheel while the other sits happily in place. Not correct for a limited-slip dif. The oil was a nice color, and just about a full load of sludge on the drain magnet, but no chunks with part numbers on them fell out.

Off to get the right oils for the trans and diff.
 
#30 ·
Can someone advise the correct way to get at the hose fitting at the bottom of the tank as well as the screw-in tank filter? I'm guessing one removes the tank?
No need to remove the tank from the car ;)

Drain the tank by disconnecting the hose on the tank pipe fitting. Then loosen the six nuts holding the round plate to the bottom of the tank. The tank filter is attached to the backside of this plate with a wing nut.
 
#23 ·
Dear Don,

Congratulations on your Montreal: you will absolutely love the car.

The oil tank has its own drain plug. Additionally, the oil change on the Monti is further complicated by the fact that the front sway bar prevents the removal of the oil filter....

Classic Alfa, in the U.K., sells reprints of the Montreal "shop manual", which is not a bona fide complete shop manual in the sense of later Alfa manuals, but nevertheless contains lots of useful information particular to the Montreal, and is a worthwhile investment.

Maybe even more useful is the Montreal Parts Manual (which come up for sale used from time to time), which has exploded diagrams of everything and accompanying part numbers, which can be cross-checked against other 105-series parts for compatibility.

AMS Montreal Service ( Home ) (site is only available in German, but relatively easy to navigate) and Bertelsbeck Automotive ( Bertelsbeck Automotive ), both in Germany, are good sources for Montreal parts. I especially like the Bertelsbeck site (which is available in English) with all the exploded parts diagrams. I have ordered from both places, with very good results.

Enjoy your car! I look forward to reading about your progress.
 
#26 ·
Hello all,

I have the CarDisc. No real specifics regarding "how to" on much of the maintenance. Oil filter easily changed. I don't air conditioning, which perhaps makes it easier. Parts book doesn't seem to show a drain plug for the oil tank, just the removable oil screen and the hose to the engine. The screen is bloody hard to get to, making me think that the tank must be removed to service it. Likewise, if I want to renew the hose, I see no way to access the fitting at the bottom of the tank.

I'm going through the grind now of determining the correct oils for the gear box and differential. Should be no great problem for the diff, but the gear box guidance is all pretty vague. Some notes say "SAE30W engine oil", while others describe it as a gear oil of 80W. The ZF manual states:

1. Mild EP-Goarbox oil., preferably of viscosity class SAE 80,
2. HD-Engine oil of viscosity class SAE 30

"Mild EP oils" are those grades that do not cause corrosion in the presence of condensation.

Grrrr. I sure would like to find unambiguous descriptions for modern oils still in production. The Shell distributor and tech line attempted some cross-overs from the original specs, and essentially said "we used to sell a lot of it, but Shell no longer makes it". The gear box conversion they said "do not use in gasoline engines". OK. How about a gear box behind a gasoline engine?

I know. I'm being a little silly. Still, I don't want to mess this up right out of the box.
 
#27 ·
1. Mild EP-Goarbox oil., preferably of viscosity class SAE 80,
2. HD-Engine oil of viscosity class SAE 30
Please keep in mind that the viscosity scales for engine oil and gear oil are not the same (there's a chart or link round here somewhere). It boils down to 30 weight engine oil and 80 weight gear oil have the same viscosity.
 
#28 ·
Jim -

Yeah. However, then we start adding on EP, non-EP, "Mild EP" (ZF quote), synthetic, NS, etc, and it leaves me wondering. I don't want to unwittingly put myself into the market for a ZF trans or Monty differential. However...

Do you know a way to tell if a differential should be a limited slip version via numbers or casting marks? My wheels turn easily in opposite directions when jacked up, which I'm thinking is not a good sign if this is an LS dif. It should be, according to the book, but this car came via Bob Cozza (supposedly his last Alfa) so no telling what is in it.
 
#32 ·
TorW,

I was discussing the oil tank. I've read your post several times and the only way it makes sense to me is if you are talking about the fuel tank. The preceding discussion (which was not quoted forward) had to do with how to remove the oil feed hose that connects the oil tank to the right bottom of the engine block, as well as remove the suction screen that is in the tank. I see no way to access the hose on mine, and the screen would be difficult to impossible to access.

????
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top