8 Tipo 33 for sale

[Boudewijn]

Kidston and Bonhams are very much a liason. Kiston sold private treaty cars for Bonhams. For 5 years he was President of Bonhams Europe before starting his own company at Geneva. No real surprise he sells the Alfa collection.

[cstlhn]

I came across this photo this evening. It comes from the archives of the Automobile Club de la Oest.

[cuernogroup]

Evert Louwman kept an immense amount of cars for the museum. Obviously for financing and practical reasons, and since he is building a new museum, not all of the cars were of interest to him.
On the other hand his bonhams auction house made him the ideal candidate to keep as much as possible together of this collection and to at least break even at the same time. The Alfa's were offered as a lot sale and the idea was not to split them up. Now perhaps, since there has been a lack of interest for a single sale, the cars will be sold separately.
A combined sale at auction would have been unimaginable..
With all due respect, these cars are all prime examples and have been extensively reviewed by Collins/McDonough. Does anybody have any reason to believe otherwise?

[cuernogroup]

BTW, the Stradale is now at Paul Grist in the UK being restored.
Peter Kaus was a great collector, but also a very complicated man and unfortunately, didn't take very good care of many of the cars.

[Cris]

Thanks for answering my question about the Stradale.
Interesting to read many peoples' negative reaction to Mr. Louwman. At the end of the day he's definitely an enthusiast with a tremendous collection of cars. My parents were on a tour with him last year and said he was pleasant and knowledgeable and, most important, USED his cars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuernogroup BTW, the Stradale is now at Paul Grist in the UK being restored. Peter Kaus was a great collector, but also a very complicated man and unfortunately, didn't take very good care of many of the cars.

[TimNuvolari]

Having read a lot of the post's regarding these vehicles I have another suggestion. Sure it might be sad that these cars where sold and the collection split up but.............
If the were kept by the new owner what where the chances he could have displayed them all and kept them running and used etc. Very slim ??. How much would it cost to keep 200 -300 cars in running condition year after year, at $50,000/ car = a lot!!!!!!!!!!!! . At the end of the day at least some of the new owners will restore these vehicles to running condition and use them, hopefully we will see if not all at least a few of the Tipo 33's being raced again and that will be good.

[Odin]

Hi Tim,
to keep the cars running, it's a problem, each Museum has to deal with.
I Think the good thing of the ex Kauss Collection was, that you could directly compare different cars, side by side, that people could find out, which cars where competitors, in the same period. In a Museum, one can learn a lot.
This was destroyed by the new owner. Thats the sad thing.
We all recieve better pics, of these cars now, we recieve information, some true, some fake and maybe we will see the cars soon in Pebble Beach Show condition, but is this neccesary, I believe a racing car with scars looks better.

At the last Retromobile Louwman was still selling cars of the collection, maybe he will earn Millions, or will have the remaining cars for free, but money is not everything and most cars will be spread around the world in private collections and public will not see them for a long time.
Look at the Miles Collier Collection, it's not open for the public, if you are able to see the cars, you can't take pics, this is for me a lost treasure.
Same happened to the Bardinon Collection, at last Bardinon sold most of the cars in recent years, but before, it was impossible to see them.

So I prefer cars not in perfect condition in a Museum, if I would like to see different Figoni bodied cars, where I have to go now, to see them?
Regards
Jörg

[richardowen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odin Hi Tim, to keep the cars running, it's a problem, each Museum has to deal with. I Think the good thing of the ex Kauss Collection was, that you could directly compare different cars, side by side, that people could find out, which cars where competitors, in the same period. In a Museum, one can learn a lot. This was destroyed by the new owner. Thats the sad thing. We all recieve better pics, of these cars now, we recieve information, some true, some fake and maybe we will see the cars soon in Pebble Beach Show condition, but is this neccesary, I believe a racing car with scars looks better. At the last Retromobile Louwman was still selling cars of the collection, maybe he will earn Millions, or will have the remaining cars for free, but money is not everything and most cars will be spread around the world in private collections and public will not see them for a long time. Look at the Miles Collier Collection, it's not open for the public, if you are able to see the cars, you can't take pics, this is for me a lost treasure. Same happened to the Bardinon Collection, at last Bardinon sold most of the cars in recent years, but before, it was impossible to see them. So I prefer cars not in perfect condition in a Museum, if I would like to see different Figoni bodied cars, where I have to go now, to see them? Regards Jörg

[pieter melissen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odin to keep the cars running, it's a problem, each Museum has to deal with. I Think the good thing of the ex Kauss Collection was, that you could directly compare different cars, side by side, that people could find out, which cars where competitors, in the same period. In a Museum, one can learn a lot.

[richardowen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by pieter melissen Hi Jorg, In 2003 Kauss brought the Periscopio car and the Targe Florio to the European Concours in Schwetzingen....and he regularly showed other cars on the Ring as well. In defense of Mr. Louwman it has to be said that he has a very explicit taste, and many of the cars already sold off were not at all interesting to him. I also never heard that Mr. Kauss made it a condition of sale that the collection should stay together. I think after Frankfurt had turned him down, he was so fed up with everything that he could not care less about his cars. It is not so that Kidston and Bonhams are working closely together, but it could well be that he was assigned with selling the Alfas as a collection, supposing that the collection would bring more than the sum of the individual cars. Only time will tell whether this strategy has been correct. best Pieter

[pieter melissen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardowen Did any interest him? He sold the Teardrop, most of the French cars, the V8 Maseratis, now all the 33s. There's lots left, but most of the feature cars are gone/going.

[Odin]

Hi Pieter and Richard,
maybe the times are gone, that we normaly went to a museum, to inform us, or to see something beautiful, even that we are buying books to read.
Maybe its now your turn, to inform as best as you could, about our beloved cars. I think, you both are doing a wonderful work, but you have to do many compromises, to your mostly young users, who wants to see lots of modern 'Supercars' and they like to be informed about the most expensive, the fastest...etc.
Sadly we could see, that most collectors, are now trying, to collect 'green bucks', faking cars, histories, working together with doubtful dealers and trying to get as much money as possible. It's seems to be part of the 'modern' world, were people are doing everything, against good education, to get richer, all in the 'Hedgefonds' way, that our big brother teached us. A few will earn, but most will loose.
You both have the chance now, were so many cars are coming up for sale, to make good fotos and stories about them, but its sad to see every time the same Ferraris at the meetings and seeing them on all the internet fotopages.
What about the rest, are they only worth one foto?
I told you Pieter, that I would dream about a virtual museum, where you could see every car, from any angle and hopefully with some good information, but not only supercars. Thinking about Alfa, I've never dreamed about a T 33, but the car that opened me the eyes and my mind about sportscars, was the Giulia Super. How much driving pleasure I had in a nimble Fiat 850, driving it in vacations. The strange thing is, that you can find mostly cars in internet, that are beautiful, but in real life they were cars horrible to drive. Most Ferraris and Lamborghinis are terrible to drive. For a long time I owned a Maserati Vignale Spider, what a elegant looking car, but my Alfa 1600 Giulia Spider, was a 10 times better to drive, the Maserati was only a good looking truck.
There are so many forgotten cars, that made history, hope that you will one day will remember them, or should I do something, to enter in competition with you, when I move back to Europe this year?
Regards
Jörg

[pieter melissen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odin Hi Pieter and Richard, maybe the times are gone, that we normaly went to a museum, to inform us, or to see something beautiful, even that we are buying books to read. Maybe its now your turn, to inform as best as you could, about our beloved cars. I think, you both are doing a wonderful work, but you have to do many compromises, to your mostly young users, who wants to see lots of modern 'Supercars' and they like to be informed about the most expensive, the fastest...etc. Sadly we could see, that most collectors, are now trying, to collect 'green bucks', faking cars, histories, working together with doubtful dealers and trying to get as much money as possible. It's seems to be part of the 'modern' world, were people are doing everything, against good education, to get richer, all in the 'Hedgefonds' way, that our big brother teached us. A few will earn, but most will loose. You both have the chance now, were so many cars are coming up for sale, to make good fotos and stories about them, but its sad to see every time the same Ferraris at the meetings and seeing them on all the internet fotopages. What about the rest, are they only worth one foto? I told you Pieter, that I would dream about a virtual museum, where you could see every car, from any angle and hopefully with some good information, but not only supercars. Thinking about Alfa, I've never dreamed about a T 33, but the car that opened me the eyes and my mind about sportscars, was the Giulia Super. How much driving pleasure I had in a nimble Fiat 850, driving it in vacations. The strange thing is, that you can find mostly cars in internet, that are beautiful, but in real life they were cars horrible to drive. Most Ferraris and Lamborghinis are terrible to drive. For a long time I owned a Maserati Vignale Spider, what a elegant looking car, but my Alfa 1600 Giulia Spider, was a 10 times better to drive, the Maserati was only a good looking truck. There are so many forgotten cars, that made history, hope that you will one day will remember them, or should I do something, to enter in competition with you, when I move back to Europe this year? Regards Jörg

[richardowen]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Odin Hi Pieter and Richard, maybe the times are gone, that we normaly went to a museum, to inform us, or to see something beautiful, even that we are buying books to read. Maybe its now your turn, to inform as best as you could, about our beloved cars. I think, you both are doing a wonderful work, but you have to do many compromises, to your mostly young users, who wants to see lots of modern 'Supercars' and they like to be informed about the most expensive, the fastest...etc. Sadly we could see, that most collectors, are now trying, to collect 'green bucks', faking cars, histories, working together with doubtful dealers and trying to get as much money as possible. It's seems to be part of the 'modern' world, were people are doing everything, against good education, to get richer, all in the 'Hedgefonds' way, that our big brother teached us. A few will earn, but most will loose. You both have the chance now, were so many cars are coming up for sale, to make good fotos and stories about them, but its sad to see every time the same Ferraris at the meetings and seeing them on all the internet fotopages. What about the rest, are they only worth one foto? I told you Pieter, that I would dream about a virtual museum, where you could see every car, from any angle and hopefully with some good information, but not only supercars. Thinking about Alfa, I've never dreamed about a T 33, but the car that opened me the eyes and my mind about sportscars, was the Giulia Super. How much driving pleasure I had in a nimble Fiat 850, driving it in vacations. The strange thing is, that you can find mostly cars in internet, that are beautiful, but in real life they were cars horrible to drive. Most Ferraris and Lamborghinis are terrible to drive. For a long time I owned a Maserati Vignale Spider, what a elegant looking car, but my Alfa 1600 Giulia Spider, was a 10 times better to drive, the Maserati was only a good looking truck. There are so many forgotten cars, that made history, hope that you will one day will remember them, or should I do something, to enter in competition with you, when I move back to Europe this year? Regards Jörg

[jozza]

Quote:

Originally Posted by richardowen J Personally, I have about 200 images from the Museum which I plan to publish sometime. This will not only help bring back the memories, but give people that never saw it a good look inside.