Abarth chassis

[odayfun]

I own a 208a . I have only seen one picture on the front cover of a book which had the several other abarths pictured around a plaza. you mentioned that onl one 208a was made. mine matches the color in the picture but not the hubcaps. any info would be greatly apprciated.
Thanks.
Bill

[iicarJohn]

Welcome Bill,

I have a little bit of history collected on the 208/A. I will certainly share, but first I would like to combine it with whatever you received with the car. I have guessed for a long time that it bore a certain chassis number but then a 207/A turned up with that number. What is your chassis number? Engine number? Any history ... at least from whom you purchased it and roughly when?

Best regards.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry

[dretceterini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex Chassis and suspension photos. I couldn't find anyone to open up the bonnet, so no engine pics unfortunately.

[dretceterini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2000 touring sp Thank you Alex for the beautiful pictures. A very unique design and car. The problems with the papers can be related to, that this car should have been build from 2 Abarth 1000 cars, that should have been crashed on Avus during test. There was 3 Abarth build, and only one exist to day. There has been an article in Het K about these cars. Maybe someone know the hole story.

[odayfun]

It is #005. I have owned it for over thirty years. It does about 50mpg on the open road. It is all original even the tires.
Bill

[dretceterini]

I'm kind of partial to the 209 coupe

[martinue]

In contemporary magazines I found the following:

19580617 Monza (I), AlfaAbarth1100 Marino Guarnieri/Toni Sailer (I), Carlo Abarth: test, 1100 cc, 220 km/h

19590630 Auto Italiana 7 (I), AlfaAbarth1000 Abarth/Alfa Romeo (I), technical dates: 998 cc, 88 hp at 8000 rpm, 640 kg, 190-200 km/h

195810 Salone di Torino (I), AlfaAbarth1000 Alfa Romeo SpA, Milano (I), presentation: body by Bertone, 998 cc, 88 hp at 8000 rpm, 650 kg, 200 km/h

19620113 Auto Motor und Sport 2 (D), photo:



19620421 Auto Motor und Sport 9 (D), Giulietta parts for sale: Rennsportzubehör, drei Kurzhuber-Spezialnockenwellen, eine neu DM 210, eine von Hand poliert DM 230, eine gebraucht DM 150, zwei 4-Ganggetriebe je DM 340, zwei Köpfe je DM 380 mit Nockenwellen, zwei Weber-Vergaseranlagen DCO3 mit Alukrümmer je DM 540, ein fast fertiggestellter Alfa-Rennsportwagen DM 3500, Polyesterkarossen DM 300, Gitterrohrchassis DM 700, original Abarth Gitterrohrchassis DM 1500, dazugehörige Stromlinienkarosserie DM 1200. Unter Chiffre 9337 an den Verlag (D)

2002 Rosso-Bianco-Collection - Aschaffenburg (D), AlfaAbarth1000 peter Kaus: "The GT vehicle, which was only built 3 times, was a real sensation on the Torino Automobile Exhibition in 1959. The engine, which had been reduced to 998 ccm, achieved a power capacity of 112 hp at 8,000 rpm. During record attempts on the Avus race track in Berlin the cars had been written off. It was a lot of luck that Peter Kaus found fragments of the cars in 1980 and reconstructed the vehicle. Nowadays it is the only one in existance"

That would mean that there were at least three further Abarth chassis than the Colani and that Peter Kaus rebuilt the car on what he found in 1980

[2000 touring sp]

Thanks martinue
Are you sure that Peter have had this car since 1980.
The reason I am asking, is that a similar Colani car together with a yellow/black Abarth Boano spider was for sale in Turin inn 2002.

[martinue]

The text comes from a photo you can find in post #27 by dretceterini. It is the second photo from the first link. It seems to be shot on 20020101 according to the camera information. Kaus tried to sell some cars himself in the last few years (like TZ2 #750117), before the complete Collection came to NL in 2006 and is now for sale car by car

[iicarJohn]

Thanks Bill,

You've confirmed what I suspected all along after learning that the other two Salone Torino cars were numbers "004" (207/A) and "006" (209/A). When a 207/A numbered "005" turned up out of South America, it was a momentary "blow" to my theory. But then there were those who opined that the 207/A numbered "005" was not an actual Abarth creation. Clearly it was not the "Cisitalia" that it was claimed to be, even if there is an historical foundation for the application of the name.

I subsequently saw the car at the Monterey Historic Automobile Races and had a good look although I was not able to do any truly thorough checking. I could be wrong, but I walked away believing that the car was probably genuine despite a few confusing details that might have been simply poor repairs or perhaps even variations in original build detail. A previously-considered possibility that it was perhaps the 208/A converted to 207/A configuration was all but eliminated. Some documentation was supplied that supported the 1960 shipment from Abarth to Argentina, justifying its labeling as "Cisitalia" at the time. The "Cisitalia" labeling is believable because there are several non-Cisitalia cars that were imported as "Cisitalia" as result of Dusio's Argentine business "Cisitalia Argentina" that was one of very few, if not the only, builders/importers to create an importation loophole in country where it was otherwise very difficult to import a car from elsewhere. It seems the "Cisitalia Argentina" name gave a bureaucratic illusion of Argentinean production. This does not make it anything related to Cisitalia-Torino, however!

Although some might scoff at your claim of 50mpg, you remind me of 1978 when my father purchased tha Siata 300BC coupe N. ST*434*BC. It had a tuned Fiat 1100 fitted with a Nardi manifold and two downdraught 32mm carbs. He picked it up in New Jersey and trailered it to a friend's in Lincoln, Nebraska and then went to Tennessee to pick up the Moretti 750 GS N. 1294s. I flew to Lincoln and joined him upon his return and got into the Siata and drove it home, following him as he towed the Moretti on a small trailer with a Mazda RX3. As I recall, I got over 42mpg on the drive home. As we tuned it that year and the next to become significantly faster in vintage racing, the road mileage dropped into the 20's. Racing is not a very economical way to drive and, when pushing, it would sometimes drop below 10. However, it wouldn't take much to restore it to the "economy car" that it was.

Here is an attachment (MS-Excel) that describes what I've collected about the 207/A, 208/A and 209/A series. More could certainly be added with some time and effort. I am always hopeful that there are those out there who might simply "know something" that would like to be incorporated into the listing. And, most important to me, any errors would like correction as well.

You will note that that there are two cars known claiming the chassis number "002" and two cars known with the number "005". In both cases, there is a paucity of information collected about one or more of each chassis number duplication. The lack of supporting documentation does not make me doubt the validity of any car's claim at this stage. We have to start somewhere and this listing should be considered a mere beginning to the study, even after more than 25 years collecting data and trying to interpret it. More documentation would be welcome about any car, but particularly either car numbered "002" and "005". If another car should turn up one day bearing chassis "006" (or any other) then that will become subject of similar scrutiny.

Bill, what is the engine number on the ID plate of your car and ... is it still fitted? The engine number should be on the block at the right front, just below the parting face with the cylinder head.

Best regards.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry
iicarATearthlinkNET

[iicarJohn]

I don't know when he acquired it, but I saw the car in Kaus's collection in June of 1987, before the collection had become the "Rosso Bianco Collection". I will have to check my notes, but I don't believe I managed to find a chassis number in my hasty look. There was so much cool stuff in that room! As I recall, the car had the look of a rather glossy repaint (fairly recent(?) but with some dust accumulated) on a car that seemed otherwise not restored. I'll dig up the photos and add them later. I hope.

John de Boer
The Italian Car Registry

[odayfun]

Dear John
I can not open the link. The car is in storage and I will try to get the engine numbers.
It has a black and white leather interior and spare cover. hide away headlights that you have to manually open and lift up. It does have a 1100 fiat with SUs side draft carbs.
Bill

[Pat Braden]

Quote:

Originally Posted by odayfun Dear John I can not open the link. The car is in storage and I will try to get the engine numbers. It has a black and white leather interior and spare cover. hide away headlights that you have to manually open and lift up. It does have a 1100 fiat with SUs side draft carbs. Bill

[207A10]

Odayfun,
I wonder if you could share recent picture of your car in this thread, after all its been at least 40 years since it was last seen.
As a proud owner of a 207A (chassis number 10) i find it amazing that after this long and subject to so much speculation, the 208A surfeces. This brings a glimmer of hope to all kinds of lost car stories. Before i get too emotional , let me join in John's congratulatory note, no wonder he sounds excited!

Elad

[207A10]

a rare view from the cockpit of an abarth 207A. this septmeber Limerock Ct.

YouTube - Rolex Vintage Festival 2007 - Abarth 207