How accurate are factory archives?

[velocedoc]

This discussion about proving provenance about a car is rather frustrating for some of us on here as several have cars that are not reflected in the production numbers as indicated by Fusi (known to have errors). Tabucci was to have rectified alot of the mistakes but now it is said there is a supplement book that corrects errors in their book.
I am going to say that when you move archives from one factory to another location and then to one more, papers get shuffled, misplaced, lost, and wind up "who knows where", then you have a puzzle that will take along time to unravel.
It does take alot of time and effort to prove a cars history. This is why I am so adamant about asking for the history on the Veloce register. Not all of it gets put up, but is archived in files with printed copies. At least in the future, someone will appreciate the effort to retrieve this information.
As to myself, I am very frustrated at Alfa Romeo/FIAT lack of providing serial numbers for the 164Q's that were imported. We do not know how many were brought in, it is only a subjective guess at this time. We know at least 32 were in 1995 as we have some historical record by those of us that have one. The 1994's are in numbers, but how many were brought in is the question we are asking now and the proof of serial numbers.
History is good, as the cars will remain after we are gone, and people will want to know about the cars past.

[italcarguy]

I don't think they are accurate. About 4 years ago I sent them a chassis number to one of my cars, and got a build date. Recently I did it again and got a completely different date. Which is the real date?

[Palmer]

Attempting to keep track of race chassis history is as, if not more, frustrating. Still it keeps the old gray matter busy on cold winter nights. If only all race teams follow Toyota F1 who post chassis numbers on their web site reports following GP.

The search continues.

[vsharp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by dretceterini I think what is important is the ATTEMPT to try and find the truth, although inmany cases, it may never really be found. There are still hundreds of questions about the Discos for example. We have to use every source available, from the archives, to books, to period articles (if they can be found). BTW, IMO Tabucchi has quite a few errors too. One thing I would like to get my hands on is a set of Alfa Corse. I understand the archive has a complete set, but in rather poor condition. Years ago, before Elvira retired, she told me that FIAT planned a project to scan every piece of paper in the archives, including blueprints, etc. I have no idea how far the project ever got. I was only personally in the archives twice. Dave Mericle Jr. was there more recently, and he might have a better idea than me as to what is actually still there...

[gtv2000]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vsharp Stu, What is the "set of Alfa Corse" you say you would like get your hands on? Vince.

[TorW]

Well, you also have the (in)famous case of the 1972 Montreals.

During Montreal production, Alfa Romeo built the chassis, sent it to Bertone, got it back with paint etc., equipped it with mechanicals and shipped them off to dealers. The order in which this took place was more or less random, partly because of the way Bertone stored the naked chassis before doing anything with them. See attached picture from Bertone's Caselle plant.

Bertones body numbers weren't visible on the sheet metal of the finished cars, and their records have been lost (if I got that right).

The end result is a.o. that an unusual high number of Montreals - at least several dozen - have an official build date of December 31, 1972.

So what's wrong with that? Well, Dec. 31 1972 was a Sunday. Even if you consider the official number of Montreals built in 1972, 2350, it adds up to less than seven cars a day for a seven day work week.

My guess (!) is that they simply didn't know the official build date, but in order to close the books (or some other beancounter manoeuver), they gave them an improbable but official build date.

If you have a Montreal, not only do the chassis number lack any sense with regard to the official build date, the date itself might even be fabricated.

Bruce Taylor of alfamontreal.info, challenged Elvira Ruocco on this, but she insisted the dates were right. What else could she do?

This is no negative critique of Archivio Storico Alfa Romeo, but just a reminder to those who think the mere presence of a chassis number on a production model will unlock all the secrets of your car.

(Photo from alfamontreal.info)

[velocedoc]

Anyone count the chassis? How many are there? 106?

[dretceterini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtv2000 Factory promotional magazine published 1938-1943, 33 issues in total. I know of a full set in good hands... Stu, how about travelling to Europe? Albeit it was factory published, no, they didn't anticipate the GTAm yet.