Doubts of the period form 1910 to 1923

[tome coelho]

After working on the period from 1910 to 1923 to introduce in my site, I came across some problems that only someone with more books than I or with better knowledge can help.

The period is named form 1910 to 1923 but includes all the cars projected by Merosi, for this effect we only consider Jano’s cars from 6C series on. But has he entered the company in 1923 this is the milestone on the time line.

I compiled a document to be edited at will and then to be send to my email so I can update the document for others to work tome.coelho@alfacuore.com

http://www.alfacuore.com/doc_histori...0-1923_eng.zip

Any help is useful.
Also after examining the document you can post here any suggestion you think helpful

I lack also some pictures form certain models, so if possible post here some pictures of 12HP; 15HP, 15-20 HP or road going 40-60HP.

Many thank for your time every one.

[Takis]

Hello Tome ,
The Merosi era in Alfa Romeo history actually includes 6C models , like the TIPO RL Normale ,TIPO RLS & RLSS , included also in this period is a 4 cylinder in line DOHC 4 valves per cylinder and twin spark plug ignition , which was manufactured for the GP model of 1914 but never used.The TIPO P1 GP car engine was designed by Merosi but never raced as Ugo Sivocci was killed while testing a TIPO P1 in Monza
Vittorio Jano arrived in Alfa Romeo in October 1923 and responsible for his leaving from FIAT was a man named Enzo Ferrari.
Jano`s engines were based in the early efforts of Merosi and started with the 8C of the TIPO P2 GP car ,which was an evolution of the TIPO P1 GP , designed by Merosi , and managed to bring the 1st World Championship to Alfa Romeo in 1925.
A photo of TIPO P1 and another of a TIPO P2 follow.
Takis.

[Takis]

on top is TIPO P2 and what follows is TIPO P1

[tome coelho]

Many thanks Takis!

Yes, I know that there were six cylinders in Merosi Era, when I said 6C I meant road models called 6C like: 6C 1500; 6C 1750 which were design by Jano.
In the document I made the RL/RM series are already indicated to be 6 Cylinders.

Some how I expected P1 to have a front radiator similar to Mercedes SSK, like the one on the Alfa museum at left of the RL TF.



Please confirm if the P1 image is really that one.

Many thanks again... and continue to HELP me!

[Takis]

Both cars from your museum picture are RL TF , yes the P1 is the one my picture with Ugo Sivocci at the wheel.
I am trying to provide you with more pictures but i have been very busy with my job lately, please have a little patience.

[tubut]

Hi Tomé,

I can warmly recommend d'Amico & Tabucchi's 2-volume book "Le vetture di produzione -- Alfa Romeo -- Production cars". It is in my opinion more accurate than Fusi (probably more carefully edited) and devotes about 40 pages (with photos, engineering drawings and chassis numbers) just to the production cars in the period from 1910 to 1922, prior to the introduction of the RL in 1923 (the RL consumes an additional 24 pages).

It lists the G1 (35-50 HP) (Serie G) as the first production 6 cylinder car and mentions about this model:

"The design of this powerful, sporting car could hardly be other than the work of Giuseppe Merosi, who initially had opted for a 6,597 cc unit. This displacement was subsequently reduced slightly but power output was actually increased.
Encouragement for the production of this car, and especially the development of the engine with overhead valves for competition use, had come from Enzo Ferrari, a works driver who had already made something of a name for himself. Ferrari had recognised ample potential for competition develpment in this project.
Alfa had intended that the G1 (also known as the 35-50 HP) should be built alongside the less prestigious 20-30 ES Sport, but as had already happened in 1913 with the 40-60 HP, its exclusiveness, its high cylinder capacity and the consequently notable fuel consumption that was a particularly serious problem in the immediate post-war period [meaning WW1], proved to be an obstacle that restricted the model to a total production of just 52 examples. They were all sold in Australia where powerful, fast and reliable cars were needed to cope with the vast distances to be covered.
The rolling chassis was priced at 55,000 lire against the 37,000 lire of the 20-30 ES Sport."

According to the book, which is based on an Alfa Romeo workshop ledger called "Produzione autotelai vetture di serie dal 1910" (translated in the book as "Production of standard car chassis from 1910"), the G1 poduction consists of 2 prototypes built in 1920 (chassis 6001 and 6002) and 50 production cars built in 1921 (chassis 6003 - 6052) but a historical note elsewhere in the book implies that the last cars may have been built in 1922.

Hope this helps,

Ruedi

[damianjc]

Hello to anyone that interested in or help in the restoration project.


I had located some time ago a number of parts belonging to a G1 as well as some parts belonging to a later G2 (that could possibly also be off an ES Sport). I have since located an original chassis and am interested in talking to anyone that has any parts that could potentially be used to help in the restoration. I would also be interested in any primary historical data that would assist in my research.

Yours faithfully

Damian J Cessario

[damianjc]

Hello to anyone that interested in or help in the restoration project.


I had located some time ago a number of parts belonging to a G1 as well as some parts belonging to a later G2 (that could possibly also be off an ES Sport). I have since located an original chassis and am interested in talking to anyone that has any parts that could potentially be used to help in the restoration. I would also be interested in any primary historical data that would assist in my research.

Yours faithfully

Damian J Cessario

[dretceterini]

I don't know of anyone who has parts for these cars, nor do I have any idea where one might find the parts or repair manuals, other than maybe through Elvira Ruocco at Alfa Romeo itself..

[damianjc]

Thankyou for getting back to me. I have already contacted Elvira Ruocco and am waiting for a reply. The whole project was on hold until I was sure that the chassis had been destroyed or would be found, fortuntely I was able to find it and am now ready to undertake the project.

[dretceterini]

It will be a major project, but certainly worthwhile. There are very few early Alfas left. Nice that someone has found another and is willing to do what is needed to save the car.

[damianjc]

It is definitely going to be a major project, but I am in rush and willing to take my time, making sure that it is done correctly. I am looking forward to the research side of it in particular before actual work begins. I am more of a 1950s Alfa & general Italian car enthusiast and will be looking to add another 50's car to the garage in time, but this is something that should be preserved and brought back to life as you have pointed out. Once I have some feedback from the Alfa Romeo museum on exact specifications, build dates and history of this car, I will be in a better position to ascertain exactly what it is I am rebuilding. At this stage, it looks as if this car might have a little more history to it than was first suspected ?. If you ever have any questions, please feel free to email.

[Alfaross69]

Quote:

Originally Posted by damianjc It is definitely going to be a major project, but I am in rush and willing to take my time, making sure that it is done correctly. I am looking forward to the research side of it in particular before actual work begins. I am more of a 1950s Alfa & general Italian car enthusiast and will be looking to add another 50's car to the garage in time, but this is something that should be preserved and brought back to life as you have pointed out. Once I have some feedback from the Alfa Romeo museum on exact specifications, build dates and history of this car, I will be in a better position to ascertain exactly what it is I am rebuilding. At this stage, it looks as if this car might have a little more history to it than was first suspected ?. If you ever have any questions, please feel free to email.

[damianjc]

Hi Alfaross69,
Thankyou for taking the time to post a reply. I have heard of the Rhigetti collection but have not made contact yet, but they are on the list of people to approach. At this stage I am trying to get some history on the chassis and general specifications on miscellaneous running gear, magnetos, carbs etc... . Once I have heard back from the factory and have hopefully accessed the build sheet. I can move ahead.

Keep in touch.

Regards

Damian