Alfa Romeo V10 Group C sportscar

Tubolare Zagato · #1 (**permalink**) 01-19-2006, 01:44 AM

In the latest issue of Ruoteclassiche magazine a reader has published 2 (one of the car and the other of the engine) images of an abandoned Alfa Romeo's project for a V10 engined sportscar for Group C. The car has been built in 1986. He tells that this car is placed in the Museo Alfa Romeo but not with all the other cars. It is left alone and seems that nobody cares about it. I post those 2 pics. Maybe this V10 engine was the same as that of the 164 Procar? Is there anyone having more info and history about this car?

P.S. Sorry for the bad quality of the pics. They came of a mobile phone.

GiuliaSprintGTA · #2 (**permalink**) 01-19-2006, 02:22 AM

The car is not abandoned.It's in the museum but not with the other cars because there is no more place in the museum.
Remember that Alfa Romeo has lots of interesting cars which are not shown in the museum because of lack of place.
This group C is placed near the Romeo tractor and the airplane "Angelo dei bimbi".You could see them when you go to the museum.

I would add that the evolution of this 10C engine or the development of a new 10 C project (164 Pro Car), brought Alfa Romeo at the beginning of the nineties in producing some prototypes of a 10C engine for street use.
It had been tested in some prototypes (Alfa 164) but FIAT decided it was not interesting.

I would like to remember that this project went to Ferrari and this engine had been adapted for the Ferrari F1.
This Alfa Romeo engine brought Ferrari his letest victories in the F1 championship.

Tubolare Zagato · #3 (**permalink**) 01-19-2006, 03:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiuliaSprintGTA

I would like to remember that this project went to Ferrari and this engine had been adapted for the Ferrari F1.
This Alfa Romeo engine brought Ferrari his letest victories in the F1 championship.

gtv2000 · #4 (**permalink**) 01-19-2006, 03:45 AM

Strange that this car arises in discussions in several forums and magazines at about the same time.

I had posted somewhere some years ago that the GroupC project car was not powered by the V10, as it had been written several times in Autosprint over the 1988-1991 period, but instead with a detuned F1 Ferrari V12. I had been said so by one of the engineers then responsible for the project, Ignazio Lunetta.

There was little info available on the car until recently, and I can suggest to those interested to check the following links:

http://forums.autosport.com/showthre...threadid=84774

This one refers to further discussions in other places, among which the following seems the most interesting

http://forum.rscnet.org/showthread.php?t=167329

Check, and possibly download, the documents:

http://forum.rscnet.org/attachment.p...2&d=1091143768

and following pages. You find an online translation from Japanese below in the thread.

GiuliaSprintGTA · #5 (**permalink**) 01-19-2006, 05:23 AM

I totally agree with GTV2000.
The GroupC project car was not powered by the V10.
The aim of my post was not especially talking about the Group C but point out the interesting development / evolution concerning the V 10.
An early example of this unit is placed near the Group C in the picture.
Group C used an adapted 12 C Ferrari and the car remained a prototype.

The evolution of V 10 Alfa Romeo engine project went to Ferrari and became the most successfull engine in the modern F1 era.

dretceterini · #6 (**permalink**) 01-19-2006, 12:08 PM

A company called Raccoon made a 1/43rd scale hand-made model of this car in the early 1990s, but it is now difficult to find.

hammer · #7 (**permalink**) 01-23-2006, 05:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiuliaSprintGTA

The car is not abandoned.It's in the museum but not with the other cars because there is no more place in the museum.
Remember that Alfa Romeo has lots of interesting cars which are not shown in the museum because of lack of place.
This group C is placed near the Romeo tractor and the airplane "Angelo dei bimbi".You could see them when you go to the museum.

I would add that the evolution of this 10C engine or the development of a new 10 C project (164 Pro Car), brought Alfa Romeo at the beginning of the nineties in producing some prototypes of a 10C engine for street use.
It had been tested in some prototypes (Alfa 164) but FIAT decided it was not interesting.

I would like to remember that this project went to Ferrari and this engine had been adapted for the Ferrari F1.
This Alfa Romeo engine brought Ferrari his letest victories in the F1 championship.

super-racer · #8 (**permalink**) 01-23-2006, 12:42 PM

I saw this car at the museum a few months ago but could not get near it. It was in another room with glass wall. It was werid because it looked so cool and it was kinda sorta abandoned all onm its own. I wish i would have known what it was!

dretceterini · #9 (**permalink**) 01-24-2006, 10:28 AM

Did you get to see the Sanesi Giulietta monoposto veloce lightweight spider from the 1956 MM that is (was?) in the basement? Did you get a chance to go to the bookstore?

super-racer · #10 (**permalink**) 01-24-2006, 06:00 PM

Stu, hate to say this but I'm not sure if i saw that car! If I see a pic of it I can tell you. I loved that bookstoe you recomended! I was in there for about 2 hours! It was amazing and the people were so nice.

PSk · #11 (**permalink**) 01-24-2006, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiuliaSprintGTA

The evolution of V 10 Alfa Romeo engine project went to Ferrari and became the most successfull engine in the modern F1 era.

GiuliaSprintGTA · #12 (**permalink**) 01-25-2006, 01:57 AM

Hi PSK

you are right but I only wanted to point out (and this is not my fantasy) that the 10 C developed by Alfa Romeo (for street use as well for race aims) went to Ferrari and this project brought to the winning Ferrari F1 engine.

These are not Bollocks.
Hundreds of people know this story; it had been explained by engineers (who build this engine for Alfa Romeo) in 2003 during the assembly of Registro Italiano Alfa Romeo - RIAR.

"there is no way this engine had much to do with any Ferrari v10 engine "

Of course you are right concerning the evolution of the engines, but the main project (concerning the first engine) had been developed in Alfa Romeo then it went to Ferrari where it had been adapted for F1.

I thought every alfisti had to know this anecdote.

So you also learnt something new, don't you?

Best regards

gtv2000 · #13 (**permalink**) 01-25-2006, 03:23 AM

Victory has many fathers, failure none...

I had heard as well expressions of pride and enthusiasm from Alfa Corse people about their V10 engine that was better than the last Ferrari V12s.

You're right, PSk, that modern racing engines have to evolve not only from year to year, but even with significative evolutions steps during a single season, and after a few steps, there's not much of the sensible features left from the original design.

In short, no, it's not a rebadged Alfa V10 that won 6 World championships with Ferrari.

However, the light this discussion throws on the 1986- early 90s period is interesting in that racing engine projects were shared/exchanged among the Fiat group, including, at least, the Alfa V10 directed to Maranello, if only for evaluation of its best features, Ferrari V12, detuned for endurance, ending at Alfa Corse for the Group C project, after having been badged Lancia for the LC2, and the 1986 Ferrari V8 for Indy that was base of the sad Alfa effort.

The Alfa V10 was ahead of any other racing V10, if even by a few weeks/months, and was worth more than the oblivion in which it fell for the lack of competitive use.

My conclusion is that we have here another example of the outstanding technical culture that existed at Alfa, up to the very end (1986), and that was disregarded and wasted by Fiat.

hammer · #14 (**permalink**) 01-25-2006, 07:39 AM

[up to the very end (1986), and that was disregarded and wasted by Fiat.[/QUOTE]
B]F**K #%&**$%#@ fiat AGAIN[/B]

PSk · #15 (**permalink**) 01-25-2006, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiuliaSprintGTA

Hi PSK

you are right but I only wanted to point out (and this is not my fantasy) that the 10 C developed by Alfa Romeo (for street use as well for race aims) went to Ferrari and this project brought to the winning Ferrari F1 engine.

These are not Bollocks.
Hundreds of people know this story; it had been explained by engineers (who build this engine for Alfa Romeo) in 2003 during the assembly of Registro Italiano Alfa Romeo - RIAR.

"there is no way this engine had much to do with any Ferrari v10 engine "

Of course you are right concerning the evolution of the engines, but the main project (concerning the first engine) had been developed in Alfa Romeo then it went to Ferrari where it had been adapted for F1.

I thought every alfisti had to know this anecdote.

So you also learnt something new, don't you?

Best regards