10-26-2005, 10:59 AM
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what a lovely sense oh humour, you guys are just wonderful. Yes there are some that is traceable all over the net, and you meets them when searching after, hopefully, just a minor thing, to put in this tread.
As I see it there is only one Person that is able to answer the outstanding question, and that is Busso, has anyone read his book, it is in Italian, so I an left behind.
As Mr Busso is alive, there must be a possibility to get in contact with him, to rise these question
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10-26-2005, 11:51 AM
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I'm not sure if Busso is still living or not.
It has been about 10 years since I last heard from him, and he was living in a small pensioner's home outside Arese. By that time it appeared he had become a bit senile, but I do not know for sure if he was simply unwilling to answer questions I posed to him in letters, or actually did not remember. My friend, Dave Mericle Jr., visited him there about 7 years ago, and the situation was similar.
Unfortunately, it appears that there are quite a few Alfa questions we will never get complete answers to. Most of the people involved have passed away.
Most American "Alfisti" own the cars and many are capable of doing at least some work on them, but it seems to me that very few know or care much about Alfa's history.
I also find it a bit sad that so few are willing to spend the time and the money to buy the books and try and do the research, especially on cars older than the ones they actually own.
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10-26-2005, 12:21 PM
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sorry to hear about Mr Busso, my impression as that he book was reasonably new, din't think that there could be something wrong.
And our good Mother MRS Roucco has retried, so it is right three is not many left.
I se it so if you don't know where you came from , it I difficulty to know where are and where you go. And the history of Alfa tells us whey the cars behave a they do, and whey we like them also the new ones.
My impression here in Europe is that after the 156 came on , the interests has increased a lot for the history, and the pleasure to own one of the old/older cars.
Maybe you Americans will experience some of the same when Alfa Romeo returns with dealership in the States
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10-27-2005, 07:06 AM
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Location: Aken, Germany
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Sorry for being silent the last days 
This book http://www.whitefly.cc/ kept me offline!
I think the authors won't mind me recommending their book here;-)
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The 508 engine number points to 00128. But tell us more.
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Mr. Peron lived rest of his lives in Spain
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Just for political correctness, Peron became president again in 1973 after he returned from exile. He died in 1974.
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He undressed a 6C3000CM chassis to be used by Buano
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Please don't feel offended when I have my doubts here....
We all agree to the fact that the Boano body was built on car #126.
The one raced by Kling in LM.
Why should Alfa Romeo dismantle the flawless and competitive Kling-car 
My guess is that Kling crashed his LM car at the Ring!
So they didn't strip a Coupe, they gave the wreck to Boano.
And, as 2000 Touring sp mentioned, Boano was a rookie in business.
He had an amazing career at Ghia, but the Alfa 6C3000CM was the first - at least the second - car built under the name Carrozzeria Boano SpA.
So it was a little surprise pack for Alfa Romeo when giving the order to Boano! There have already been certain experiences with Colli before
Would there have been a risk when Boano dresses a crashed car???
The risk of loosing an intact car would have been minimized.
AND Argentina is far away from Italy....so who would ever find out that Peron's car had a huge crash before???
Maybe during the ownership of Henry Wessels, remains of a former accident have been found??? Could be interesting indeed!
@Boudewijn, I have to repeat myself again and again, great commitment!!! 
The colour photo of Super Flow (I) is from L'Automobile, the French mag;-)
And I see that there is sofisticated work required, to present the photos the way you do! I wish I would have your knowledge about digital photo works!!!
Bump:
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Do you have further ones of the Spa car, or does the original of the front view allow to read the registration plate?
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Good idea! I had the same thought in mind;-)
By this I could avoid a trip to Liège  (just kidding)
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I would still like to find out some information as to the actually facts if there was a 2nd C-52 style spider with a 3 liter motor or not and specific details on the motor...was it identical to the motor in the 6c3000-C50 coupe, etc...
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@Stu, same over here
There were times when I tought there was no 2nd C-52 3-litre, but meanwhile I am convinced it existed!
I have some thoughts in my mind concerning this mystery, but I need to find evidences before I can claim anything. I'll keep you updated
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You know I am a bit obsessive when it comes to information that only 3 people in the whole world really care about
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Yeah, and all three on this forum! Great!
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You made my day, lol
Best regards
Ciao Carlo
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10-27-2005, 07:14 AM
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Originally Posted by 2000 touring sp
what a lovely sense oh humour, you guys are just wonderful. Yes there are some that is traceable all over the net, and you meets them when searching after, hopefully, just a minor thing, to put in this tread.
As I see it there is only one Person that is able to answer the outstanding question, and that is Busso, has anyone read his book, it is in Italian, so I an left behind.
As Mr Busso is alive, there must be a possibility to get in contact with him, to rise these question
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I guess he's still alive, because somehow I guess I would have heard of his death. He's pretty old, 92 if I compute right. In 2002, he was taken care of by a family of not-so-young people (in their late 60s early 70s), who were not relative of him, in Arese, midway between the the centre of the village and the Alfa factory. He was very kind, pleased that a relatively young person like me was so much interested in his work, but at the end, I don't know if he really didn't recall or was reluctant to answer, I got little info from him. I guess both reasons summed on each other: he told me that there were so few fellows still alive that he didn't want to argue again with those left. He has always displayed strong views on Alfa, some people, and so on, and was of course more than sad with Fiat's buy over and successive management.
Then, I had understood that Elvira had discretely helped me to get an appointment with him, as he referred some way to her having told he could trust me. I guess that I had underrated the effects of his age and came with too precise questions, also, and I couldn't help being a bit sad for that afterwards.
So I'm afraid we cannot expect Busso to solve those misteries. But there are other people still alive who could possibly answer. Only that recollection of 85+ old people are not always 100% sure... But for instance Moroni, I met last year is still very sound!
There are a few pages in Busso's book about Discos, the CMs and the 3000 PR. Nothing on the missing 3-litre C52, anyway. Busso's book is very interesting, but I wonder who wrote what. I mean I guess Busso himself didn't write it down all. There is a mix of very precise references with dates, people, etc., and some obvious chronological errors. I can't figure out how this is possible, since Busso was well known for holding a daily scrapbook.
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10-27-2005, 09:32 AM
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There was at least one person who owned the car with the Boano body on it, before Henry Wessells bought it. It did not come directly from Peron to Henry. I think Henry sold the car about two years ago; perhaps to Larry Auriana (sp?) who has a number of other interesting cars.
If I remember correctly (and this was 20+ years ago) there was some evidence of a previous crash of the Boano car. There was also some evidence that it had been painted at least twice.
I agree that taking the 6c3000CM PF Super Sport and putting it on a 6c2500 chassis (or similar) is stupid. Why destroy what is an important car that has a long, important history, not mention destroying the history of the 6c2500 (or whatever it is)??
As to the Boano car, I would have prefered that it had been restored with the Boano body, although the damage was rather extensive. In my mind it would be better to have this body variation that a replica LeMans/MM coupe...
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10-27-2005, 09:44 AM
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It was I guess once also painted white.
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10-27-2005, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Boudewijn
It was I guess once also painted white.
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10-27-2005, 10:08 AM
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sorry, I have to keep my historical data up to date.
Carlo stated: Would there have been a risk when Boano dresses a crashed car???
The risk of loosing an intact car would have been minimized.
I was not thinking about car it selves, I was thinking about the loss of prestige for Alfa Romeo, if Peron didn't like the car. The way from Argentina was not so long at that time. I remember my Mother, in Denmark, liked to read about Evita in international magazines at that time. So the Peron's was international celibates at that time, and there attitude was well known in, at lest, in Europe and I suspect in America as well.( sorry, no I don't have any of the magazines of that time)
Quote from Anderlonis Superleggera´:
When Gioachino Colombo ceased to be one of Alfas collaborators, it was in fact Rudolf Hruska who urged the building of a coupe on the Disco Volante 2000 chassis (1953)while the development of the Disco Volante itself went ahead with a 6C3000CM type engine, still preserved today in the Touring Motor Museum. The book is from March 1983.
In Fusi page 491, in connection with Tipo 6c3000cm, there is a picture of a Disco Volante, and the text states. Spider Disco Volante con motore da 3 litri( prototipo essestente al Museo Biscaretti di Torino)
Are you talking about 2 Disco Volante 6C3000CM spiders???
Carter, you referred to the water inlet on 6C3000CM ala 1900, the opposite page
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10-27-2005, 11:10 AM
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The implication I get from the posts here is that majority opinion says there were TWO C-52 style 3 liter spiders, the motors probably being similar to the ones used in the 6c3000-C50 Competitizione coupe + TWO 6c3000CM spiders of the Supercortemaggiore type..
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10-27-2005, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by dretceterini
The implication I get from the posts here is that majority opinion says there were TWO C-52 style 3 liter spiders, the motors probably being similar to the ones used in the 6c3000-C50 Competitizione coupe + TWO 6c3000CM spiders of the Supercortemaggiore type..
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much of this is still in theory, and none
of this is settled by vote.
--Carter
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10-27-2005, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by 2000 touring sp
Carter, you referred to the water inlet on 6C3000CM ala 1900, the opposite page
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--Carter
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10-27-2005, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by dretceterini
I'm not sure if Busso is still living or not.
It has been about 10 years since I last heard from him, and he was living in a small pensioner's home outside Arese. By that time it appeared he had become a bit senile, but I do not know for sure if he was simply unwilling to answer questions I posed to him in letters, or actually did not remember.
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Fifteen years ago Borgeson introduced me to Busso, but warned me that he could be a bit difficult. My letters from him, in perfect English, and carefully hand written, are prized possessions, and I am grateful for his assistance.
But even just a few years ago, he was helpful to others and his memory was clear.
To attribute his lack of response to you in such a manner is incorrect.
--Carter
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10-27-2005, 03:46 PM
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In Fusi page 491, in connection with Tipo 6c3000cm, there is a picture of a Disco Volante, and the text states. Spider Disco Volante con motore da 3 litri( prototipo essestente al Museo Biscaretti di Torino)
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The implication I get from the posts here is that majority opinion says there were TWO C-52 style 3 liter spiders, the motors probably being similar to the ones used in the 6c3000-C50 Competitizione coupe + TWO 6c3000CM spiders of the Supercortemaggiore type..
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Stu, concerning car 0012 I would not dare to talk about majority opinions!
The key to identify the car needs to be found! I am still working on this one And honestly, I am optimistic!
About the engine of the mystery car, I would be careful.
Disco Volante 0011 had the 3-litre engine of the 6C3000 C50, no doubt.
Engine and chassis were brought together in 1952.
To me it looks as if two series of Disco Volantes have been built.
The first series of three cars in 1952 (0001, 0002 and 0011).
The second series includes 0012 and the 2-litre Coupe 0003 being built in 1953.
But very early in the year 1953, the 6C3000CM engine was built for the competition cars.
Did they built simultaneously another 6C3000 engine only for car 0012? Hard to imagine!
I would regard it as "normal" if 0012 had an 3000CM engine.
(I think it wasnt mentioned before, so: CM stands for enlarged engine capacity which actually means 3500cc)
Maybe my guesses make the topic even more complicated....but I think my thoughts are not too far from possibility.
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I was thinking about the loss of prestige for Alfa Romeo, if Peron didn't like the car. The way from Argentina was not so long at that time. I remember my Mother, in Denmark, liked to read about Evita in international magazines at that time. So the Peron's was international celibates at that time, and there attitude was well known in, at lest, in Europe and I suspect in America as well
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No doubt, Evit | |
