10-25-2005, 11:07 AM
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 Quote:
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Originally Posted by dretceterini
Does anyone think that it is possible that one of these 5 bodies was actually put on the "missing" second 6c3000-C52 and not on a 6c3000CM??
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The wheels might tell the story. None of the PF cars are on C52 6cyl wheels?
--Carter
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10-25-2005, 12:21 PM
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Which 6C 3000CM is this driving the 24 hrs of Spa 1953?
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10-25-2005, 12:21 PM
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here is a left behind Sergio and Pinin Farina in workshop before exhibition
The reason I asked about the outside tubes, was that someone mention that
there was some testing of injection systems on 6C3000 CM, and in connection
with a exchange of meanings on a 6C2500 256, there is a picture in the
6C2500 book of an engine equipped with injections, and I thought that I had
misunderstand the function of the tubes.
Boudewijn and Carlo, hidden treasures is certainly welcome, I have thrown my
in so there is no reason
for anybody to hold back. Collar pictures was even rare in the mid 50.
Carlo on you tread from the 21/10 with engine pictures. The one has only 4
outlet ports is that the Aluminium block been loaded in a C52
The story around the 6C3500 is , I think so.
In the end of 1954 a delegation from Confederation General del Trabajo
(CGT) a Argentinean labour Union came to Alfa Romeo to order a special car,
like a Disco Volante. to a very special person for his birthday.
Time did not exist , The question ended at Bosso`s table. He undressed a
6C3000CM chassis to be used by Buano to do a Disco Volante for President
Peron. President Peron was very interested in cars, he had a 1900 Sprint and
he got one of the first Giulietta Sprint.When Piero Dusio went dawn in
1950,President Peron persuaded him to flee to argentine with the Grand Prix
/Formula 1 car.
So he was a person with a certain image.
Carrozzeria Buano was just started, despite that Buano had experience from
Ghia, was he able to make a design and especially build a car that could
fulfil the
demand from the new owner.
Just to be secure, I think that Alfa Romeo prepared the other chassis for
Pinin Farina just to have a backdoor if it turned wrong with Carrozzeria
Buano.
Carlo it is right that they didn't pay for the creation. firs when a
delegating from Alfa Romeo had been in Argentina they was able to get some
money. But maybe it was only the sum of money that was paid for car at the
auction of President Peron left behinds. Mr. Peron lived rest of his lives
in Spain
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10-25-2005, 01:47 PM
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Boano's last race.
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10-25-2005, 01:50 PM
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#00125 at the 1986 Mille Miglia historico.
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10-25-2005, 07:10 PM
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Here is the PF body and a few peeks underneath at the chassis which is very much not 00128.
--Carter
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10-25-2005, 07:36 PM
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Let me comment on the photos I just posted.
The photos are of the PF show car as it appeared at Amelia Island.
I didn't try to identify all the parts used, but none of this looks like 6C3000CM. For example: the 6C3000CM uses forged upper and lower A-arm front suspension, looking much like parts from the Giulietta that followed, and not so unlike 105 and 116 cars. It uses a sophisticated frame. And it doesn't rub its parts on the grass as it putted along.
I am happy to see the two cars--the lost 6C3000CM race car, and the important Pinin Farina "clothes horse"--now able to live separate lives. But I think this old Alfa engine and these chassis parts now under this body are simply confusing: this new chassis has nothing to do with the PF body. And these old prewar parts have nothing to do with the 6C3000CM. I'd prefer to see the correct wheels on the car, and some simple Mule chassis, perhaps more like a golf cart engine than this unhappy assemblage of components.  The car is barely driveable now anyway. 
But the exciting part will be to see 00128 step out again as the Colli bodied car that Fangio drove in the MM.
--Carter
The first step is to fill in the history of 00128.
Last edited by CarterHendricks; 10-25-2005 at 08:37 PM.
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10-26-2005, 04:11 AM
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Great detective story Carter. Do you know where the original chassis might be at this moment (or did I miss that information)?
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10-26-2005, 07:13 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Boudewijn
Great detective story Carter. Do you know where the original chassis might be at this moment (or did I miss that information)?
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I assume that Peter Kaus still has it, and I assume that he has some plans for it.
--Carter
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10-26-2005, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dretceterini
What am I missing? I count 5 bodies on chasssis 00128
1) MM/LM type coupe
2) Superflow 1 w/glass front fenders
3) Superflow II
4) Super Sport Spider (looks like a big Duetto)
5) Super Sport coupe that was in Rosso Bianco
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6) The new Colli recreation that will be fitted to the genuine 0128 chassis, as far as I understand.
Quote:
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Does anyone think that it is possible that one of these 5 bodies was actually put on the "missing" second 6c3000-C52 and not on a 6c3000CM??
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Stu, what did you drink/smoke yesterday night?  
C52s and CMs have definitely different chassis with different sizes and layout. Both types are tubular, but the tubes are not in the smae places, so a swap is highly improbable.
The four PF bodies having been fitted to the same 0128 chassis is an information I've never seen questioned outside late evening, foggy yet imaginative Alfist brains expressing themselves in this very forum... 
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10-26-2005, 07:40 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CarterHendricks
I assume that Peter Kaus still has it, and I assume that he has some plans for it.
--Carter
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I know Paul Koot from Holland (managing director of Zagato, owner of the Borrani factory) 3 years ago had some negociations going with Peter Kaus concerning this car...............
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10-26-2005, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by CarterHendricks
The photos are of the PF show car as it appeared at Amelia Island.
I didn't try to identify all the parts used, but none of this looks like 6C3000CM.
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Indeed, those illustrated are brand new looking prewar suspension parts like those on 6C2300B, 8C2900 and 6C2500. One would assume they are actually part of the less rare of those chassis, i.e. 6C2500.
I, for one, would not be so happy that such an important car becomes, probably in a lucrative way, two half authentic ones: real body on a chassis having nothing to do with it, possibly butchered to suit the body size; then the authentic chassis with a replica body on it. I would not have expected the 6C300CMs ending in the league of "8 existing cars out of 6 built"
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I am happy to see the two cars--the lost 6C3000CM race car, and the important Pinin Farina "clothes horse"--now able to live separate lives.
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Let me dissent. The PF body was tailored for and around the 3000CM chassis. It's the last step of an evolutionary project that counted four different bodies, evolved from each other. It's an important achievement, whatever one's taste in favour of one ar another of those steps. Fitting that body on another chassis doesn't make favour to the body nor to the supposedly 6C2500 chassis.
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I'd prefer to see the correct wheels on the car, and some simple Mule chassis, perhaps more like a golf cart engine than this unhappy assemblage of components. The car is barely driveable now anyway.
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I've no idea how it can drive now, but why the hell did one need to separate this body from its chassis??
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But the exciting part will be to see 00128 step out again as the Colli bodied car that Fangio drove in the MM.
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Here I can't dissent more. Recreations of bodies, especially when crafted from pictures, without original drawings nor original car to copy from are not my cup of tea. Angelo Tito Anselmi wrote, years ago, a flaming article on this topic and I agreed with what he was saying there. It's an insult to the artistic value of the original creations as the replicas usually lack at all the sensibility of the original coachbuilder. They are often flawed and don't render justice to the creator. Shapes are wrong here and there, the balance also is. Look at body drawing corrected by one Anderloni, Pininfarina or Bertone's hand. It's where you see that the overall shape was already fixed by the designer, but a shape, a curve, a detail was somewhat wrong, lacked something. The maestro spots it and corrects, et voilà you get the masterpiece. Now look at recreations and compare them with the pic of the original thing side-to-side. None compares well when they are not copy from an existing real car or crafted after the original drawings.
Look at Wessel's existing Colli coupé recreation. Sorry, it's NOT the original car. First thing you notice, windshield upper shape is compeltely wrong. They had to do with an existing glass, as far as I know, because recreating an one-off windshield is beyond wallet reach. But if you look closer, it's not it either from other angles, albeit I reckon that craftmanship showed by who did the job is actually remarkable. And when one sees how the Boano body was after roll over, it's sensible to have decided a Colli recreation rather than desperate salvation of the Boano.
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10-26-2005, 10:33 AM
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Boudewijn: great pics!
Do you have further ones of the Spa car, or does the original of the front view allow to read the registration plate?
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10-26-2005, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by gtv2000
6) The new Colli recreation that will be fitted to the genuine 0128 chassis, as far as I understand.
Stu, what did you drink/smoke yesterday night?
C52s and CMs have definitely different chassis with different sizes and layout. Both types are tubular, but the tubes are not in the smae places, so a swap is highly improbable.
The four PF bodies having been fitted to the same 0128 chassis is an information I've never seen questioned outside late evening, foggy yet imaginative Alfist brains expressing themselves in this very forum... |
OK, 6 if indeed Kaus puts a Colli LM/MM coupe recreation on the chassis...which to me doesn't make a lot of sense taking off a "real" body and replacing it with a recreation...
As to the many rebodies on 00128, I meant that kind of as an "inside joke". You know I have an "odd" sense of humor. I know that all the bodies were indeed on one chassis, but but in a way it seems kind of silly that they kept putting new bodies on a chassis that was almost 10 years old
I would still like to find out some information as to the actually facts if there was a 2nd C-52 style spider with a 3 liter motor or not and specific details on the motor...was it identical to the motor in the 6c3000-C50 coupe, etc...
You know I am a bit obsessive when it comes to information that only 3 people in the whole world really care about 
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